Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[Biilybob65]

1st, You’re importing something into Rom 6 that Paul never said.

2ndly, Paul NEVER (any book he wrote) cites, nor does he ever instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name". You just added the to scripture.

Romans 3:
20 — No one is justified by works of the law.
22 — Righteousness comes through faith in Jesus Christ.
26 — God is the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
28 — A person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
30 — God justifies Jew and Gentile through faith

Rom 4:
2 If Abraham was justified by works, he could boast, but he wasn’t.
3 Abraham believed God & it was counted to him for righteousness.
5 God justifies the ungodly through faith.
6 David describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
9–11 Abraham was counted righteous before circumcision — proving righteousness comes by faith, not ritual.
16 The promise is by faith, so it may be by grace.
22–24 Righteousness is imputed to all who believe.

Rom 5:
1 “Being justified by faith, we have peace with God.”
2 We have access by faith into grace.
9 We are justified by His blood (not by works or rituals).

The Apostle HAMMERS Justification thru FAITH. In Chapters 3,4 & 5. Then suddenly in Rom 6, he's citing justification thru water ritual?

Paul repeatedly teaches: Justification is by faith, through grace, apart from works, rituals, or law‑keeping

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(NOTE: Chapter foundation: SINNING!)

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(NOTE: Don't lead a life anchored in SIN)

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(NOTE: DON'T YOU KNOW? We that "WERE BAPTIZED". He's not teaching a ceremony, he's correcting their thinking about sin & union with Christ.)

Rom 6:4 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Verse structure: Purpose of that baptism & it's rising-ups result, a a newness of life. It's about union with Christ's death & resurrection. Context is positional, not ritual. Christ died & was raised. You've been united to His death & therefore you share His resurrection life. This whole chapter is about sanctified living. The "newness of life" is about your present walk, not a momentary ritual

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(NOTE: The "newness" is about your present actions/walk, not a momentary ritual)

Paul’s entire point in Romans 6 is union with Christ & a ritual.

Additional help same writer:

Gal 3:2 Did you receive the ""Spirit"" by works or by hearing with faith???

Eph 1:13 ""Having believed"", you were sealed with the Holy Spirit

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ baptizes with/in the Holy Spirit.)

Col 2
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision ""made without hands"", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh ""by the circumcision of Christ"":
(MY NOTE: Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit. It's a SPIRITUAL circumcision done by ""Christ Alone"" ""without hands & without H2O"")

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
(MY NOTE: Not water baptism, READ the CONTEXT verse above: The ""circumcision of Christ"" ""made without hands"". The old covenant required a physical circumcision. The new covenant requires a Spiritual circumcision done by ""Christ Alone"" ""without hands"")

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
(MY NOTE: You once were dead in sin. Christ' spiritual circumcision/Holy Spirit baptism ""done without hands & without water"". Has quickened = made you Spiritually alive. He immersed you with His FOREVER (Jn 16:14) indwelling Holy Spirit. It's Christ' free eternal life giving (gift Rom 6:23, Jn 5:24), salvation sealing (Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30) Holy Spirit quickens/regenerates/makes you spiritually alive. NO H2O NEEDED!)

A lot to deal with will try to get back to this

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

1st, You’re importing something into Rom 6 that Paul never said.

2ndly, Paul NEVER (any book he wrote) cites, nor does he ever instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name". You just added the to scripture.

Romans 3:
20 — No one is justified by works of the law.
22 — Righteousness comes through faith in Jesus Christ.
26 — God is the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
28 — A person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
30 — God justifies Jew and Gentile through faith

Rom 4:
2 If Abraham was justified by works, he could boast, but he wasn’t.
3 Abraham believed God & it was counted to him for righteousness.
5 God justifies the ungodly through faith.
6 David describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
9–11 Abraham was counted righteous before circumcision — proving righteousness comes by faith, not ritual.
16 The promise is by faith, so it may be by grace.
22–24 Righteousness is imputed to all who believe.

Rom 5:
1 “Being justified by faith, we have peace with God.”
2 We have access by faith into grace.
9 We are justified by His blood (not by works or rituals).

The Apostle HAMMERS Justification thru FAITH. In Chapters 3,4 & 5. Then suddenly in Rom 6, he's citing justification thru water ritual?

Paul repeatedly teaches: Justification is by faith, through grace, apart from works, rituals, or law‑keeping

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(NOTE: Chapter foundation: SINNING!)

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(NOTE: Don't lead a life anchored in SIN)

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(NOTE: DON'T YOU KNOW? We that "WERE BAPTIZED". He's not teaching a ceremony, he's correcting their thinking about sin & union with Christ.)

Rom 6:4 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Verse structure: Purpose of that baptism & it's rising-ups result, a a newness of life. It's about union with Christ's death & resurrection. Context is positional, not ritual. Christ died & was raised. You've been united to His death & therefore you share His resurrection life. This whole chapter is about sanctified living. The "newness of life" is about your present walk, not a momentary ritual

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(NOTE: The "newness" is about your present actions/walk, not a momentary ritual)

Paul’s entire point in Romans 6 is union with Christ & a ritual.

Additional help same writer:

Gal 3:2 Did you receive the ""Spirit"" by works or by hearing with faith???

Eph 1:13 ""Having believed"", you were sealed with the Holy Spirit

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ baptizes with/in the Holy Spirit.)

Col 2
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision ""made without hands"", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh ""by the circumcision of Christ"":
(MY NOTE: Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit. It's a SPIRITUAL circumcision done by ""Christ Alone"" ""without hands & without H2O"")

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
(MY NOTE: Not water baptism, READ the CONTEXT verse above: The ""circumcision of Christ"" ""made without hands"". The old covenant required a physical circumcision. The new covenant requires a Spiritual circumcision done by ""Christ Alone"" ""without hands"")

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
(MY NOTE: You once were dead in sin. Christ' spiritual circumcision/Holy Spirit baptism ""done without hands & without water"". Has quickened = made you Spiritually alive. He immersed you with His FOREVER (Jn 16:14) indwelling Holy Spirit. It's Christ' free eternal life giving (gift Rom 6:23, Jn 5:24), salvation sealing (Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30) Holy Spirit quickens/regenerates/makes you spiritually alive. NO H2O NEEDED!)

Have you ever stopped to think that God performs spiritual circumcision in the"ritual" of baptism, because it demonstrates a person's faith? God has from the beginning dealt with man though "rituals" as expressions of their faith. Abel, Noah, Job offered burnt offerings; Abraham performed circumcision and offered his son on the altar. Those were not works of law.

 

[Biilybob65]

1st, You’re importing something into Rom 6 that Paul never said.

1st, You’re importing something into Rom 6 that Paul never said.

What am I importing please explain

2ndly, Paul NEVER (any book he wrote) cites, nor does he ever instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name". You just added the to scripture.

This is because in all of the letters Paul wrote they were to already saved saints to various churches that he was correcting in errors.

Romans 3:
20 — No one is justified by works of the law.
22 — Righteousness comes through faith in Jesus Christ.
26 — God is the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
28 — A person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
30 — God justifies Jew and Gentile through faith

Rom 4:
2 If Abraham was justified by works, he could boast, but he wasn’t.
3 Abraham believed God & it was counted to him for righteousness.
5 God justifies the ungodly through faith.
6 David describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
9–11 Abraham was counted righteous before circumcision — proving righteousness comes by faith, not ritual.
16 The promise is by faith, so it may be by grace.
22–24 Righteousness is imputed to all who believe.

Rom 5:
1 “Being justified by faith, we have peace with God.”
2 We have access by faith into grace.
9 We are justified by His blood (not by works or rituals).

Yes and the faith that justifies is the faith in his words all his words not just a few select words. Paul point out that when you believed you also had believed in the teaching of baptism Oh and that that makes the point that Paul never taught baptism in the name of Christ as you said a falsehood see Acts 19. Also as the above proves when Paul says not of works he is talking about the works of the Law the old covenant.

The Apostle HAMMERS Justification thru FAITH. In Chapters 3,4 & 5. Then suddenly in Rom 6, he's citing justification thru water ritual?

Yes it is recorded right there for you to read and trust Paul isn't speaking falsely.Trust in the Apostles word that was given them from God.

Paul repeatedly teaches: Justification is by faith, through grace, apart from works, rituals, or law‑keeping

Paul teaches Justification is by faith, through grace, apart from works of
law‑keeping (the old covenant) no where does he teach against baptism in the name of Christ.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(NOTE: Chapter foundation: SINNING!)

And how God did away with sin

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(NOTE: Don't lead a life anchored in SIN)

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(NOTE: DON'T YOU KNOW? We that "WERE BAPTIZED". He's not teaching a ceremony, he's correcting their thinking about sin & union with Christ.)

Here is where you and Paul part ways and you teach your man made doctrine. Paul is say that when you submitted to the baptism in Christ name the one Christ commanded that it is then that you are baptized into his death (the cross the gospel obedience )

Rom 6:4 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Verse structure: Purpose of that baptism & it's rising-ups result, a a newness of life. It's about union with Christ's death & resurrection. Context is positional, not ritual. Christ died & was raised. You've been united to His death & therefore you share His resurrection life. This whole chapter is about sanctified living. The "newness of life" is about your present walk, not a momentary ritual

Yes it results in a newness of life in the spirit. Yes this is where we Join Christ at the cross for the cleansing blood. This is where God does his spiritual work of transforming you from dead in sin to alive in Christ. The symbol you see is the actual work God is doing it is clearly told here but you try to take Gods work out and say Paul is just talking symbolic but Paul is tell you it is more than just a picture but the real deal.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(NOTE: The "newness" is about your present actions/walk, not a momentary ritual)

The newness is the born again of John three. Paul is explaining just how you are born again. He could not have said it any plainer you must trust in the teaching of the gospel for this is the gospel.

Paul’s entire point in Romans 6 is union with Christ & a ritual.

Paul's whole point of Romans 6 is explaining how one is born again. You see the semblance and realize that it is talking about the new birth but you want badly to divorce it from grace faith and salvation where Paul connects all the dots.

Additional help same writer:

Gal 3:2 Did you receive the ""Spirit"" by works or by hearing with faith???

Yes were you saved but the old law or by the gospel of Christ

Eph 1:13 ""Having believed"", you were sealed with the Holy Spirit

Ye having believed the gospel and obeyed see Romans 6:17 and Acts 19:1-5 Having believed entails believing the gospel and and it expected response.

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ baptizes with/in the Holy Spirit.)

Yes in Acts 2:38 where it is recorded as Christ giving his spirit in the baptism in his name. See Romans 6

Col 2
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision ""made without hands"", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh ""by the circumcision of Christ"":
(MY NOTE: Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit. It's a SPIRITUAL circumcision done by ""Christ Alone"" ""without hands & without H2O"")

God said he did this in the baptism that you were baptized with into his death in Romans 6 which points to Acts 2:38

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
(MY NOTE: Not water baptism, READ the CONTEXT verse above: The ""circumcision of Christ"" ""made without hands"". The old covenant required a physical circumcision. The new covenant requires a Spiritual circumcision done by ""Christ Alone"" ""without hands"")

Yes Paul same author as Romans explained this in Romans 6 It was by the operation of God that the transformation took place

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
(MY NOTE: You once were dead in sin. Christ' spiritual circumcision/Holy Spirit baptism ""done without hands & without water"". Has quickened = made you Spiritually alive. He immersed you with His FOREVER (Jn 16:14) indwelling Holy Spirit. It's Christ' free eternal life giving (gift Rom 6:23, Jn 5:24), salvation sealing (Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30) Holy Spirit quickens/regenerates/makes you spiritually alive. NO H2O NEEDED!)

Yes again Paul explained how all this was done through the work of the Farther transforming us in Romans 6 through the baptism that we were baptized with (Acts 2:38 ) is when we were baptized into his death (the cross). all these scripture work together to show Acts 2:38 is most assuredly the spirit baptism that John said Jesus would baptized for they clarify that yes we die to sin and arise in the new life in Christ with the indwelling spirit. See you put it all together nicely now you must believe that Romans 6 is the work of God and not just symbolic.

 

[FlyingDove]

Have you ever stopped to think that God performs spiritual circumcision in the"ritual" of baptism, because it demonstrates a person's faith? God has from the beginning dealt with man though "rituals" as expressions of their faith. Abel, Noah, Job offered burnt offerings; Abraham performed circumcision and offered his son on the altar. Those were not works of law.

Col 2:11 Spiritual circumcision is done without hands, is formed by Christ, not by humans & no H2O is used.

2ndly, God did used rituals in the OT. Those rituals: never saved anyone, never regenerated anyone & never united anyone to Christ.

Abel's offering didn’t save him, Noah's offering didn’t save him, Job's offerings didn’t save him.

Abraham’s circumcision didn’t save him. Abraham was justified before circumcision. Circumcision was a sign, not the cause.

They were ALL saved thru FAITH, not rituals.

Christ' chosen apostle, Paul teaches:

We are saved by grace, justified by faith, baptized & sealed by Christ' Spirit & washed with Christ' sinless blood.

 

[FlyingDove]

Here's what you imported:
You said: """Paul says in Romans 6:3 that is is is the baptism in Christ name is where we are baptized into his death."""

Here's my reply
Paul NEVER (any book he wrote) cites, nor does he ever instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name". You imported that into scripture.

Rom 3 in context:
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(NOTE: Chapter foundation: SINNING!)

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(NOTE: Don't lead a life anchored in SIN)

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(NOTE: DON'T YOU KNOW? We that "WERE BAPTIZED". He's not teaching a ceremony, he's correcting their thinking about sin & union with Christ.)

4 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Verse structure: Purpose of that baptism & it's rising-ups result, a a newness of life. It's about union with Christ's death & resurrection. Context is positional, not ritual. Christ died & was raised. You've been united to His death & therefore you share His resurrection life. This whole chapter is about sanctified living. The "newness of life" is about your present walk, not a momentary ritual

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(NOTE: The "newness" is about your present actions/walk, not a momentary ritual)

6 we should not serve sin.

7 he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 if we be dead with Christ, we should also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Roman 6 context beginning to end. (isn't about your holy grail > water baptism in Jesus name) It's about sanctification/set apart living.
You are now dead to sin/no longer under It's grip, live in newness of resurrected live.

 

[Biilybob65]

Here's what you imported:
You said: """Paul says in Romans 6:3 that is is is the baptism in Christ name is where we are baptized into his death."""

Here's my reply
Paul NEVER (any book he wrote) cites, nor does he ever instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name". You imported that into scripture.

Rom 3 in context:
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(NOTE: Chapter foundation: SINNING!)

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(NOTE: Don't lead a life anchored in SIN)

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(NOTE: DON'T YOU KNOW? We that "WERE BAPTIZED". He's not teaching a ceremony, he's correcting their thinking about sin & union with Christ.)

4 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Verse structure: Purpose of that baptism & it's rising-ups result, a a newness of life. It's about union with Christ's death & resurrection. Context is positional, not ritual. Christ died & was raised. You've been united to His death & therefore you share His resurrection life. This whole chapter is about sanctified living. The "newness of life" is about your present walk, not a momentary ritual

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(NOTE: The "newness" is about your present actions/walk, not a momentary ritual)

6 we should not serve sin.

7 he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 if we be dead with Christ, we should also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Roman 6 context beginning to end. (isn't about your holy grail > water baptism in Jesus name) It's about sanctification/set apart living.
You are now dead to sin/no longer under It's grip, live in newness of resurrected live.

My I again point you to Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
This proves you wrong Paul did most certainly "instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name"." Not only did he and his followers teach it Paul did indeed baptize some in the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 2:38) Your refusal to accept this biblical fact is causing you to be wrong on many of your thoughts. It is recorded right there to rebuke your false claim of "Paul NEVER (any book he wrote) cites, nor does he ever instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name". It is your rejecting scriptural teaching I am merely embracing it.

As for the rest of your post I have dealt with several times, but you are rejecting what the scriptures say even when pointed out to you. Like you did with the statement "Paul NEVER (any book he wrote) cites, nor does he ever instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name". You imported that into scripture." Many scriptures reference Paul pointing to the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ you just reject the truth of what they say. If that is your insistence there is no need to try to show you your error.

 

[FlyingDove]

My I again point you to Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
This proves you wrong Paul did most certainly "instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name"." Not only did he and his followers teach it Paul did indeed baptize some in the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 2:38) Your refusal to accept this biblical fact is causing you to be wrong on many of your thoughts. It is recorded right there to rebuke your false claim of "Paul NEVER (any book he wrote) cites, nor does he ever instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name". It is your rejecting scriptural teaching I am merely embracing it.

As for the rest of your post I have dealt with several times, but you are rejecting what the scriptures say even when pointed out to you. Like you did with the statement "Paul NEVER (any book he wrote) cites, nor does he ever instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name". You imported that into scripture." Many scriptures reference Paul pointing to the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ you just reject the truth of what they say. If that is your insistence there is no need to try to show you your error.

You keep importing Acts into Paul’s theology. Acts 19:5 is NOT Paul giving an instruction.

Acts 19:5 is Luke narrating what the Ephesians did, not Paul giving a command, not Paul writing a letter & not Paul prescribing a formula.

Acts 19:5 is Luke describing an event, not prescribing a formula, not quoting Paul & not giving a command.

You're confusing a narrative description (what happened) with an apostolic instruction (what Paul taught in his letters)

Again, Paul NEVER says "baptize in Jesus’ name" in ANY letter he wrote.

Show me where Paul says this, commands this, or teaches this in any letter he wrote.

Your claim that, Paul instructed someone to baptize in Jesus’ name. Isn't supported with scripture.

It's not found in Rom, Cor, Gal, Eph, Col, Thes, Tim, Titus or Phil.

BTW, Paul did NOT baptize anyone in Acts 2:38. Acts 2:38 is Peter, not Paul.

 

[Biilybob65]

You keep importing Acts into Paul’s theology. Acts 19:5 is NOT Paul giving an instruction.

Acts 19:5 is Luke narrating what the Ephesians did, not Paul giving a command, not Paul writing a letter & not Paul prescribing a formula.

Acts 19:5 is Luke describing an event, not prescribing a formula, not quoting Paul & not giving a command.

You're confusing a narrative description (what happened) with an apostolic instruction (what Paul taught in his letters)

Again, Paul NEVER says "baptize in Jesus’ name" in ANY letter he wrote.

Show me where Paul says this, commands this, or teaches this in any letter he wrote.

Your claim that, Paul instructed someone to baptize in Jesus’ name. Isn't supported with scripture.

It's not found in Rom, Cor, Gal, Eph, Col, Thes, Tim, Titus or Phil.

BTW, Paul did NOT baptize anyone in Acts 2:38. Acts 2:38 is Peter, not Paul.

See You can not see what plain scripture says. It is very clear that Paul is telling the difference between the baptism of John, and the baptism that John said Jesus was to baptize with. Johns baptism was before the cross, and could not give the spirit, because Christ had not yet went to the cross. Johns baptism was transitioning to the baptism that Jesus was to baptized with. in which would give the spirit. We see that in Acts 2:38 .The baptism that John said Jesus was going to baptize with, is the baptism of Acts 2:38. That my friend is elementary biblical facts given and confirmed. I can't for the life of me understand how you can not see that. The bible could not make it any more clear than what was given. Anytime the bible talks about the baptism in the name of Christ it is in reference to Acts 2:38 that is elementary my dear Watson.

 

[Biilybob65]

Okay I see what you are trying to say. Luke is recording what Paul did. Paul had to teach it to them in order for them to have accepted it and get baptized in the name of Christ. Paul corrected the error meaning he taught them the truth so still Paul taught it in accordance to scripture the Ephesians did not come by it with out Paul's teaching.

 

[Biilybob65]

BTW, Paul did NOT baptize anyone in Acts 2:38. Acts 2:38 is Peter, not Paul.

They all taught the same gospel and baptized with the same baptism. That is biblical facts as well you are just trying to create loop hole where there aren't any. There is only one gospel of Christ and as Paul said Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Col 2:11 Spiritual circumcision is done without hands, is formed by Christ, not by humans & no H2O is used.

You totally missed the point of what I said.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You keep importing Acts into Paul’s theology. Acts 19:5 is NOT Paul giving an instruction.
Acts 19:5 is Luke narrating what the Ephesians did, not Paul giving a command, not Paul writing a letter & not Paul prescribing a formula.
Acts 19:5 is Luke describing an event, not prescribing a formula, not quoting Paul & not giving a command.
You're confusing a narrative description (what happened) with an apostolic instruction (what Paul taught in his letters)

The only logical conclusion from Acts 19:3-6 is that Paul water-baptized the Ephesians in the name of Jesus per his instruction in verse 4. IMO it's really disingenuous to try to find a way around this.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Again, Paul NEVER says "baptize in Jesus’ name" in ANY letter he wrote.

Show me where Paul says this, commands this, or teaches this in any letter he wrote.

Your claim that, Paul instructed someone to baptize in Jesus’ name. Isn't supported with scripture.

Not explicitly, but it's most definately stated indirectly in Acts 19:4

 

[Ouch]

1st, You’re importing something into Rom 6 that Paul never said.

2ndly, Paul NEVER (any book he wrote) cites, nor does he ever instruct anyone else, to baptize "in Jesus’ name". You just added the to scripture.

Romans 3:
20 — No one is justified by works of the law.
22 — Righteousness comes through faith in Jesus Christ.
26 — God is the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
28 — A person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
30 — God justifies Jew and Gentile through faith

Rom 4:
2 If Abraham was justified by works, he could boast, but he wasn’t.
3 Abraham believed God & it was counted to him for righteousness.
5 God justifies the ungodly through faith.
6 David describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
9–11 Abraham was counted righteous before circumcision — proving righteousness comes by faith, not ritual.
16 The promise is by faith, so it may be by grace.
22–24 Righteousness is imputed to all who believe.

Rom 5:
1 “Being justified by faith, we have peace with God.”
2 We have access by faith into grace.
9 We are justified by His blood (not by works or rituals).

The Apostle HAMMERS Justification thru FAITH. In Chapters 3,4 & 5. Then suddenly in Rom 6, he's citing justification thru water ritual?

Paul repeatedly teaches: Justification is by faith, through grace, apart from works, rituals, or law‑keeping

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(NOTE: Chapter foundation: SINNING!)

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(NOTE: Don't lead a life anchored in SIN)

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(NOTE: DON'T YOU KNOW? We that "WERE BAPTIZED". He's not teaching a ceremony, he's correcting their thinking about sin & union with Christ.)

Rom 6:4 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Verse structure: Purpose of that baptism & it's rising-ups result, a a newness of life. It's about union with Christ's death & resurrection. Context is positional, not ritual. Christ died & was raised. You've been united to His death & therefore you share His resurrection life. This whole chapter is about sanctified living. The "newness of life" is about your present walk, not a momentary ritual

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(NOTE: The "newness" is about your present actions/walk, not a momentary ritual)

Paul’s entire point in Romans 6 is union with Christ & a ritual.

Additional help same writer:

Gal 3:2 Did you receive the ""Spirit"" by works or by hearing with faith???

Eph 1:13 ""Having believed"", you were sealed with the Holy Spirit

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ baptizes with/in the Holy Spirit.)

Col 2
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision ""made without hands"", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh ""by the circumcision of Christ"":
(MY NOTE: Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit. It's a SPIRITUAL circumcision done by ""Christ Alone"" ""without hands & without H2O"")

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
(MY NOTE: Not water baptism, READ the CONTEXT verse above: The ""circumcision of Christ"" ""made without hands"". The old covenant required a physical circumcision. The new covenant requires a Spiritual circumcision done by ""Christ Alone"" ""without hands"")

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
(MY NOTE: You once were dead in sin. Christ' spiritual circumcision/Holy Spirit baptism ""done without hands & without water"". Has quickened = made you Spiritually alive. He immersed you with His FOREVER (Jn 16:14) indwelling Holy Spirit. It's Christ' free eternal life giving (gift Rom 6:23, Jn 5:24), salvation sealing (Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30) Holy Spirit quickens/regenerates/makes you spiritually alive. NO H2O NEEDED!)

You are right, Paul never does tell us how to be saved.

That's because he's not talking to the unsaved, he's talking to the church;s with the foundation of he book of Acts.

You can see them on post 1,917, the one you didn't respond to.

He does in fact tell us what happens in baptism, Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

What happen is when JESUS died he went to his grave with all of our sins, when JESUS came out, he was sin free.

When we get baptized in JESUS name we go to our waterery grave with all of our sins, when we come out we are sin free.

It's not the water that removes the sins, it's being obeiden to HIS word and calling upon the NAME OF JESUS when doing so that does.

Have you had your sins removed?

Sin WILL NOT enter Heaven.

 

[Ouch]

Col 2:11 Spiritual circumcision is done without hands, is formed by Christ, not by humans & no H2O is used.

2ndly, God did used rituals in the OT. Those rituals: never saved anyone, never regenerated anyone & never united anyone to Christ.

Abel's offering didn’t save him, Noah's offering didn’t save him, Job's offerings didn’t save him.

Abraham’s circumcision didn’t save him. Abraham was justified before circumcision. Circumcision was a sign, not the cause.

They were ALL saved thru FAITH, not rituals.

Christ' chosen apostle, Paul teaches:

We are saved by grace, justified by faith, baptized & sealed by Christ' Spirit & washed with Christ' sinless blood.

Baptism today is like, circusium was then.

If we don't get water baptized in JESUS name we will be damend.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

OT same thing, the Lord came to kill moses because he did not circumcised his son.

Exodus 4:24-26
King James Version
24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.

25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.

26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

So Moses wife Zipporah did the job and saved them.

If you didn't circumcised OT you were damned, just like not being baptized today.

 

[Wansvic]

...

Again, Paul NEVER says "baptize in Jesus’ name" in ANY letter he wrote.

....

Paul knew baptism was to be in the name of Jesus and why it was essential. Paul's own baptism proves this point. Also, Paul's letter to the Corinthians reveals baptism is to be in the name of Jesus, because Jesus was the one crucified to save man's soul. His letters to the Galatians and those in Rome touch on the point as well.

Acts 22:16
"And now why tarriest thou (Saul/Paul)? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

1 Cor 1:13-15
" Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name"

Galatians 3:27
"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

Romans 6:3-6
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

 

[FlyingDove]

See You can not see what plain scripture says. It is very clear that Paul is telling the difference between the baptism of John, and the baptism that John said Jesus was to baptize with. Johns baptism was before the cross, and could not give the spirit, because Christ had not yet went to the cross. Johns baptism was transitioning to the baptism that Jesus was to baptized with. in which would give the spirit. We see that in Acts 2:38 .The baptism that John said Jesus was going to baptize with, is the baptism of Acts 2:38. That my friend is elementary biblical facts given and confirmed. I can't for the life of me understand how you can not see that. The bible could not make it any more clear than what was given. Anytime the bible talks about the baptism in the name of Christ it is in reference to Acts 2:38 that is elementary my dear Watson.

1st, You didn’t answer my question TWICE. I asked where PAUL, in his own writings, instructs baptism in Jesus' name or receiving the Spirit through a water ritual. You gave me Acts again. That’s the definition of importing.

You’re building your doctrine by forcing a narrative book (Acts) to overrule clear apostolic teaching (Paul). That’s backwards.

You’re answering a question I didn’t ask. I asked for PAUL'S teaching. You keep giving me LUKE’S narration.

You also equate John’s prophecy with Acts 2:38. But John’s prophecy is fulfilled in Acts 2:4 & Acts 11:15–16: Both Spirit events, both without water, both without a spoken formula.

That alone proves Acts 2:38 is NOT the fulfillment of John’s prophecy.

Let’s map out Acts facts:

Acts 2:4, They are filled with the Spirit. NO water. NO Jesus‑name formula. This event is Jesus fulfilling Johns prophecy.

Acts 2:21, Whoever calls on the Lord will be saved.

Acts 2:32–36, Peter preaches the resurrection & Messiahship of Jesus.

Acts 2:37, They HEAR & are "pricked in the heart." That's FAITH.

Acts 2:41, Those who GLADLY RECEIVED his word were baptized. FAITH 1st & Baptism after. No tongues from the 3,000.

Your doctrine demands Acts 2:38 as a universal salvation script. But Acts itself collapses that idea:

Acts 2, They believe first.
Acts 8, BELIEVE, baptized & Spirit comes much later.
Acts 10, BELIEVE, Spirit falls & baptized later.
Acts 11, Spirit falls with NO water & NO formula.
Acts 16, BELIEVE, saved, baptized later.
Acts 19, BELIEVE, Spirit, baptized later.
Acts 13:39, ALL who BELIEVE are justified.
Acts 13:48, As many as were ordained to eternal life BELIEVED. No baptism in Jesus name & NO Water!

If Acts 2:38 were the universal formula, Acts 8, 10, 11, 13, 16, & 19 would all contradict your gospel formula. But they don’t, your interpretation does.

Sherlock, you may want to rethink your position. FD

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Acts 2:4, They are filled with the Spirit. NO water. NO Jesus‑name formula. This event is Jesus fulfilling Johns prophecy.

Those men were already baptized into the name of Jesus

 

[FlyingDove]

I don't think you understand the only transition going on from the book of Acts is people be transition from death unto life.

Paul didn't have his own gospel, Paul letters were to churches who have the foundation of the book of Acts. He was NOT addressing the UNSAVED.

Look who the letters are addressed to,

1 Corinthians 1
King James Version
1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

2 Corinthians 1
King James Version
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Romans 1
King James Version
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1
King James Version
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

Ephesians 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Philippians 1
King James Version
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Colossians 1
King James Version
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1
King James Version
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1
King James Version
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

All letters after the book of Thessalonians had nothing to do with Paul's ministry to churches.

Back to Paul, proving Paul follow JESUS along with the rest of JESUS disciples this in him with the beginning or foundation of the church in Ephesus.

Paul who approached some folks to see if they received the Holy Ghost.

Which started the church in Ephesus.

Acts 19
King James Version
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.

8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

After Paul baptized those folk and they received the Holy Ghost he stayed there for 2 to 3 years preaching which build that church which must have included Jews and greeks.

So if Paul aproced you and asked you, have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed, what would you say?

FYI, I don't have to be right about anything, this is not about me being right it's not about me at all, it's ALL about JESUS.

You're proving my point for me. You keep treating Acts as the doctrinal foundation & Paul as commentary. But the Bible shows tremendous church growth through Paul’s ministry & not Luke’s narration.

Paul absolutely WAS GIVEN a distinct gospel & revelation:

My gospel (Rom 2:16; 16:25). Not from man but by direct revelation from Jesus Christ (Gal 1:11–12)

The dispensation of grace given to ME for YOU Gentiles (Eph 3:2)

I laid the foundation as a wise master builder (1 Cor 3:10).

You can’t erase those verses just because they contradict your formula.

As for Acts 19, Paul's ONLY recorded instruction is "believe on Christ Jesus" (v.4).

Verse 5 is LUKE narrating what they did, not Paul giving a command or formula.

And the Spirit comes by laying on of hands (v.6), not water.

Paul the master builder, chosen by Jesus Himself (Acts 9:15; 26:16–17) expects the Spirit at belief: Did you receive the Spirit when you believed? (Acts 19:2).

Paul's epistles repeatedly teach FAITH Justifies. Not a water + formula = Spirit indwelling.

You're reversing the biblical hierarchy. Doctrine comes from the apostles' teaching, not Luke’s narration. Acts describes events; Paul defines doctrine.

Treating Acts as the foundation & Paul as commentary is the exact opposite of how the New Testament is structured.

 

[FlyingDove]

Those men were already baptized into the name of Jesus

Acts 2:4?

You can't have "Jesus‑name baptism" before the resurrection because Christian baptism is grounded in the death, burial & resurrection of Christ (Rom 6:3–4).

You can’t be baptized into a death & resurrection that hasn’t happened yet.

Acts 2:4 is the fulfillment of John’s prophecy & it happens with NO water and NO formula.

Also, the how to baptism argument doesn't begin until after Jesus resurrection. Where BTW the RISEN Lord commands them to baptize in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit. (Matt 28:19)