Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View
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I'll try another way.
The idea that Jesus would not have come and die if Noah had not been obedient is antithetical to scripture. It renders God impotent. He is no longer omnipotent, nor omniscient.
The idea that Jesus would not have come and die if Noah had not been obedient is antithetical to scripture. It renders God impotent. He is no longer omnipotent, nor omniscient.
NO
Hebrew:
matsa = to find, to be given, to receive
chen = grace, favor, unearned kindness, unmerited favor
It doesn't mean """someone received instructions""". Now you're just making stuff up.
Verse 8: Noah finds grace...
Verse 13–18: THEN God gives instructions
Read the context: (1) Grace given (2) Covenant announced (3) Instructions delivered (4) Obedience follows.
The same salvation pattern found throughout Scripture.
Noah obeys because he was given grace, not in order to find grace. Grace is the cause, obedience is the result.
“My point may be even a bit tighter than what you're saying. Obedience is part of genuine faith - meaning if we genuinely believe God is God, then we also have a mental/spiritual predisposition to obeying Him. Lord, I believe you are God, so tell me your will, I know who You are / I am ready to obey You. “
yeah I think my point is we have to do this to ever learn any of the attitude your talking about this is what I’m saying
“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Matthew 11:27-30 KJV
there was a time I was a kid at 30 thought I had figured all of it out…..then at 70 I realized something beautiful about our God . I looked back to when I was thirty and began to count all the times I did wrongs and said wrong and messed up and fell down and fell apart and struggled and toiled and failed ………and I realized he’s never left me never forsaken me he’s always remained with me in my lowest and worst times . Times I can’t even pretend I was obeying him times I was still rebelling and times I didn’t know anything that I now know in my 70s
obedience really is a key point but it’s not the whole story it’s a fruit of the belief that comes when we begin to really hear his word in the gospel forninstance when we begin to learn things like this parable it creates a need obedience in our mind just by coming to Jesus and hearing his word
“Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
Matthew 7:24-27 KJV
his word teaches us as we grow up to obey him it’s not something we can force others to believe and do Jesus took a rebel and taught him about obedience but he accepted the sinner well before they even knew what righteousness truly was
We agree about obedience to Jesus and the gospel it comes down to how we treat other people that’s what Jesus teaches mostly how to treat other people even when they aren’t treating us good . The gospel is centered upon that matter .
It's not antithetical to scripture to have a sound mind. Show how your mind works by explaining how 1) Noah could have survived the flood without the ark he built and 2) how Noah could have been saved if he and his family had perished without the savior who was born through them.
The result would be what brother ? After lol “ Noah demonstrated he had no faith “
….. wouod he have entered the ark he built by faith and became hier of the righteousness of faith ?”
he would have had no ark right ? If he hadn’t acted ?
….. wouod he have entered the ark he built by faith and became hier of the righteousness of faith ?”
he would have had no ark right ? If he hadn’t acted ?
Noah found grace and received instructions how to save himself and his house
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Genesis 6:8
Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it. Genesis 6:14-16
But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee. Genesis 6:18
God could have simply chosen another and bestowed His grace upon them. God didn't need Noah to accomplish His purposes. Noah, however, did need God to be saved.
Also, God could have chosen another means of salvation. The ark is simply a type.
It's intrinsic to genuine faith and is developed over time in Christ. Endurance is part of disciplinary training.
Same thing with love - it's commanded, so is also unified with obedience and faith - and grows over time in Christy in Spirit.
The 70's are supposed to be more developed than the 30's. Seems like you and I can attest that they are.
Who would have been left for God to choose? All of mankind would have been wiped out
They weren't when God chose to set His affection upon Noah. Or God could have created more people.
Why do you limit God so?
Gen 6 & 9 same covenant.
Gen 6:14-16 plan blue prints: NOTHING HAS BEEN MADE!
Verse 18, But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
(READ THE TEXT: Covenant promised before Noah builds the ark, before any obedience, before any work!)
Gen 9:8 After the flood, covenant confirmed, rainbow the sign. Same covenant, two stages.
God promises Abraham a covenant in Gen 12, cuts the covenant in Gen 15, God signs it with circumcision in Gen 17. Same covenant, multiple stages.
“It's intrinsic to genuine faith and is developed over time in Christ. Endurance is part of disciplinary training.”
exactly . But don’t forget Jesus forst accepted us as we are when we turn to him and then our genuine seed of faith has to grow into a strong plant that eventually bears healthy fruit . Babies don’t know anything but they are precious in his sight and definately ort of the family
I agree when faith is taught it should be taught that” doing “ the word is essential
God bless and keep you haha and yes the seventies hurt physically but somehow feels like I learned something at some point sonewhere
you know what your saying. There is sort of the most basic point in scripture of you think about it adam was told the truth about the fruit by God and all he had to do was trust the lords word to him it would have kept them safe
as soon as they broke the good and holy commandment what God truthfully earned became a reality and death was now part of adams existance just as he had been earned lovingly and truthfully by God to keep him safe .
thats how Gods word always is he’s always telling us the truth lovingly wanting us to hear and believe him so that we will act
Whether it was Noah or someone else is irrelevant. Someone needed to build the ark to save mankind. If God created more people they wouldn't have been the woman's seed and God would be a liar.
In this Genesis narrative, Noah is described in his relationship with God > then is given grace to be saved from destruction.
He is already in an obedient relationship with God before being given this grace.
Agreed.
The first thing that should be taught is to not say we believe in Him if we're not prepared to submit to Him and do what He says. God & Father & Lord & Christ/King are all words of authority.
That reality is foundational. We both know it is developed over time and that over time we realize we originally had little clue what that meant in it's more complete scope, but at least we should have been clearly informed of it. Maybe it would save some from some discipline. Maybe it would save others from deceitful, false theology.