Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

So? You are still ignoring that it is God who shows them. Why can't you accept that? How He does it is not the issue, He is responsible for their knowing.

Rom.1:19
because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

And we have likewise CLEARLY shown them. I expect a grim outcome for them and the end of this bizarre unseemly charade..

Rom 1:20 - For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[Cameron143]

Faith is faith.

Do you believe Russia exists?

Are you in Russia?

I get it. You don't understand the difference between natural and supernatural.

 

[Genez]

He worked upon their hearts, minds and wills. Read Acts 2:37.

If God enters your thoughts and the tone of voice does not change from what you normally hear?
He is still speaking to you, but not demanding recognition. He wants you to think freely about what
you just thought without pressure. Knowing it was God, you would feel compulsion, not freedom.

 

[sawdust]

What's even more interesting is that you can't understand that many religious people in the world (even professing Christians) believe those 3 items, yet still don't believe the Gospel.

Which only goes to show what I said is true. Believing those three things must come before faith. Never did I say they are a guarantee one will take the next step into faith, that was simply your assumption.

 

[sawdust]

A person cannot be Christian who is spiritually dead,

He didn't say they're dead, he said they were "as good as dead". That means they behave like they are dead even though they are alive. It is as if they are dead.

 

[sawdust]

God hasn't revealed to them personally that Jesus is the Christ. He has shown them through creation and conscience of His existence. It isn't that God hasn't shown them, it's that He hasn't revealed Christ to them. Nature and conscience do not proclaim the gospel and are limited in what they reveal concerning God. When is the last time someone was saved looking at a tree?

That is because showing them He exists is all He is showing them, that's it, full stop, say no more. Eternal power and Divine nature, no more than that. Stop making excuses for not believing what is plainly written.

You kept saying God did not show them now you admit He did but want to move onto salvation which was not under discussion.

You can be very disingenuous sometimes Cameron.

 

[rogerg]

He didn't say they're dead, he said they were "as good as dead". That means they behave like they are dead even though they are alive. It is as if they are dead.

Nope, dead - spiritually dead

[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Eph 2:5 KJV] 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

 

[sawdust]

Then tell it to sawdust because he made a distinction between believing and faith.

He doesn't have to because he recognised that faith is the result of believing the word. No word of God, no faith, believe whatever you like.

 

[sawdust]

Nope, dead - spiritually dead

[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Eph 2:5 KJV] 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

So? Do you know what was under discussion? When we (believers) sin we become as if we are not spiritually alive, walking after the flesh again, not that we actually die again. This is why we need to confess our sin 1Jn.1:9 which was the point the poster was making.

Keep up man.

 

[Mem]

Adam's desire was to judge between good and evil and, in that taking that choice for himself, the choice to judge was taken away from the rest of mankind. That is, we all must judge for ourselves, and whether we judge of ourselves or of the writings of Moses, we will inevitable find ourselves condemned with no other option to choose from because we've all come short of keeping this law, that law, or any other law, perfectly. That is, of course, if it were not for the mercy of God for giving us the choice of judging His Grace. And Jesus made the choice obvious in declaring, (make this choice) "I am the Way, I am the Truth, and I am the Life..." And God even used the choice of those that judged wrongly for His righteous purpose. However, He's yet to 'prove' He is the right (and only) choice other than having risen from the dead, because it pleases Him that we should live 'by faith.'

 

[sawdust]

I was made spiritually alive and had my heart circumcised. I heard and believed with the new heart and by the Spirit.

Then you received power before you believed but according to you no believing, no power. So which is it? Did you believe and receive power or did you receive power as an unbeliever?

 

[sawdust]

interesting you now make this about me.

Let the party commence,..

Lets twist and shout my sugar plumb fairy

Why not? You made it about me. What's good for the goose is good for the gander mate. Someone has to tell you. (gee, where have I heard that before)

How about you stop twisting what others say and stop shouting at them and try discussing the scriptures for which this forum is designed. Prove what I said isn't true, rather than using your time to denigrate others.

 

[Cameron143]

If God enters your thoughts and the tone of voice does not change from what you normally hear?
He is still speaking to you, but not demanding recognition. He wants you to think freely about what
you just thought without pressure. Knowing it was God, you would feel compulsion, not freedom.

But that's not what happens in salvation.

 

[Cameron143]

That is because showing them He exists is all He is showing them, that's it, full stop, say no more. Eternal power and Divine nature, no more than that. Stop making excuses for not believing what is plainly written.

You kept saying God did not show them now you admit He did but want to move onto salvation which was not under discussion.

You can be very disingenuous sometimes Cameron.

I said they did not hear God and they were not taught by Him. It is you who is being disingenuous.

 

[Cameron143]

Then you received power before you believed but according to you no believing, no power. So which is it? Did you believe and receive power or did you receive power as an unbeliever?

The power is in the Spirit using the gospel to save.
I was made spiritually alive so I could respond to the gospel with the new heart that was given to me.

 

[Jordon]

Why not? You made it about me. What's good for the goose is good for the gander mate. Someone has to tell you. (gee, where have I heard that before)

How about you stop twisting what others say and stop shouting at them and try discussing the scriptures for which this forum is designed. Prove what I said isn't true, rather than using your time to denigrate others.

No I said you missed the part out in scripture which says without faith, That's telling you, that you've have left something out in that understanding of scripture, where as you, made a personal remark against me.

It's means those who don't have faith can't please him,

Which means nobody has faith until God gives your faith, faith is a gift, and so is how he makes a person believe,

Free will of making a wrong choice is pretty much evident in your replies here,

 

[rogerg]

So? Do you know what was under discussion? When we (believers) sin we become as if we are not spiritually alive, walking after the flesh again, not that we actually die again. This is why we need to confess our sin 1Jn.1:9 which was the point the poster was making.

Keep up man.

Yes, I know. But once God makes someone spiritually alive there is no such thing "as if" not being spiritually alive. You're either spiritually alive or you're spiritually dead, period - one does not even mimic the other. What does "as if" even mean?

 

[lrs68]

just to prove your quoting fairy theories, a five watt light bulb would instantly burn out on high voltage, like your brain lol

What you need is a capacitor for Gods super duper kinetic energy,

Which enables you to not being passive, this is how the spark works the forces of God act as a passive capacitor for you

It's the sparks theory of all theories, a passive compacitor for your heart, as when your passive your to easily influence by low energy, and easily controlled resulting in a five watt light bulb flickering on and of

Nah, it works on Amps and easy to reduce.

 

[Genez]

That is because showing them He exists is all He is showing them, that's it, full stop, say no more. Eternal power and Divine nature, no more than that. Stop making excuses for not believing what is plainly written.

You kept saying God did not show them now you admit He did but want to move onto salvation which was not under discussion.

You can be very disingenuous sometimes Cameron.

Just do not lend him money with a promise he will pay back next week....

 

[brightfame52]

Grace is God's working principle.

For Salvation, Its Gods saving power in action