144,000: The first resurrection and rapture of the church

[ATG]

They were considerd Jews by the world

Gal 1:13
For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The world doesn't write Scripture for God.

2 Pe 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

A natural gospel after the flesh, written by the will of man, has come full circle.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The world doesn't write Scripture for God.

Do you think that still applies? Paul was referring to the new covenant coming first to the houses of Judah and Israel, and then to the gentiles starting with Cornelius. God has fulfilled his promise; consequently, there is no longer Jew or gentile in God's eyes.

 

[ATG]

Yeah, but they're both called Mt Zion. Zion is translated into Greek with a sigma (S) instead of a zeta (Z) because the Semitic letter Tsade (צ) is often transliterated as sigma in Greek.

False. It's not a translation thing, but prophetic.

Mic 3:12
Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.

The Lamb's Sion is never destroyed, nor His New Jerusalem.

 

[ATG]

Quote
""The firstfruits harvest is of all the firstfruits of the Spirit at the High Priest's coming. The main harvest is all the following fruits of His Millenium kingdom"".

The RESURRECTION has FIRSTFRUITS. Jesus is the firstfruits AS THE BIBLE SAYS. [/QUOTE]
Correct. First Jesus' resurrection, and next the first resurrection of His saints.

.MAIN HARVEST FOLLOWS FIRSTFRUITS.

Correct. The main harvest of the rest of the dead, follows the firstfruits harvest of the first resurrection of the saints.

The 144,000 are firstfruits JEWS, HEBREWS, ISRAELITES.

The firstfruits are born of the Spirit before the Lord's return, having the firstfruits of the Spirit, till His return.

I've already given Scripture and explanation for each point. You only say na-ah and repeat yourself.

In due time, you will get to old and tiring to continue with. Unless you address an argued point directly, or bring up something new.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

False. It's not a translation thing, but prophetic.

Mic 3:12
Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.

The Lamb's Sion is never destroyed, nor His New Jerusalem.

In the Greek LXX Zion is spelled Σιών (Sion) which is the same word for Zion in the NT. Every instance of Zion in the LXX is Sion (Σιών).

Behold I and the children which God has given me: and they shall be for signs and wonders in the house of Israel from the Lord of hosts, who dwells in mount Sion (Σιών). Isaiah 8:18​

​

But ye are come unto mount Sion (Σιών), and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, Hebrews 12:22​

 

[ATG]

Do you think that still applies? Paul was referring to the new covenant coming first to the houses of Judah and Israel, and then to the gentiles starting with Cornelius. God has fulfilled his promise; consequently, there is no longer Jew or gentile in God's eyes.

Of course. The world doesn't write Scripture for God, and Scripture now divides all flesh between Jew and Gentile.

Of course, not in the body and service of the risen Lamb of God...

 

[ATG]

In the Greek LXX Zion is spelled Σιών (Sion) which is the same word for Zion in the NT.

Behold I and the children which God has given me: and they shall be for signs and wonders in the house of Israel from the Lord of hosts, who dwells in mount Sion (Σιών). Isaiah 8:18​

​

But ye are come unto mount Sion (Σιών), and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, Hebrews 12:22​

Correct. You show by Scripture, that Zion is earthly, and Sion is prophetic after the first coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mt Sion of the risen Lamb of God is never laid bare, nor is His New Jerusalem raised to the ground.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Of course. The world doesn't write Scripture for God, and Scripture now divides all flesh between Jew and Gentile.

Of course, not in the body and service of the risen Lamb of God...

Where?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Correct. You show by Scripture, that Zion is earthly, and Sion is prophetic after the first coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mt Sion of the risen Lamb of God is never laid bare, nor is His New Jerusalem raised to the ground.

You must have missed the part where I said every instance of Zion in the OT is Sion. There are prophecies referring to the heavenly and earthly Zion that are written Sion.

 

[ATG]

They did not follow the Judean religion, pharisaism; they attempted to follow Moses.

Gal 1:13
For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

Saul of Tarsus was a leader of the Jews' religion.

 

[ATG]

You must have missed the part where I said every instance of Zion in the OT is Sion. There are prophecies referring to the heavenly and earthly Zion that are written Sion.

You must have missed the part where you show every instance of Zion in the OT is not Sion. There are prophecies referring to the heavenly Sion and earthly Zion that are written as Sion vs Zion.

 

[ATG]

Jesus called the pharisees hypocrites. In other words they acted like they followed Moses, but in actuality did not.

Including Jews in the Jews' religion, especially the Jew Saul of Tarsus.

 

[memberofthebride]

Do you think that still applies? Paul was referring to the new covenant coming first to the houses of Judah and Israel, and then to the gentiles starting with Cornelius. God has fulfilled his promise; consequently, there is no longer Jew or gentile in God's eyes.

My comment:

In God's Church -- there is neither Greek nor Gentile, but in the world, most certainly. All gentiles called by the Father are grafted into Israel.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You must have missed the part where you show every instance of Zion in the OT is not Sion. There are prophecies referring to the heavenly Sion and earthly Zion that are written as Sion vs Zion.

Your mind isn't working very well. The only reason Sion exists in the NT is because it's a translational issue. It has nothing to do with anything else. I repeat, every instance in the OT LXX is Sion, and if you include the NT, then every instance in the bible is Sion.

 

[ATG]

You guys trying to rewrite the 144,000 BY TAKING THE OBVIOUS COMPONENTS OFF THE TABLE , Or making stuff up via "exclusive spiritual discernment"

We guys are interpreting NT Scripture of the 144,000 BY TAKING THE OBVIOUS COMPONENT of natural Judaism OFF THE TABLE

Or making stuff up via "exclusive spiritual discernment"

You're making stuff up by calling it "exclusive spiritual discernment".

The physical winds are held still, and the physical foreheads are sealed. Their physical bodies are resurrected to meet with the Lord in the physical air, standing on His heavenly physical mt Sion.

1Pe 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Eph 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

His chosen generated and holy nation of Israel, is physical on earth living holy as He is holy.

 

[ATG]

Adding another unscriptural narrative?

Tribal Membership: Israel's twelve tribes were based on bloodline descent from Jacob = Israel.

Even after circumcision & full conversion, proselytes were not assigned into a specific tribe. They were considered Israelites in terms of covenant obligations & privileges, but they were given no tribal allotment of land.

True again. Getting outwardly circumcised to become a member of a natural tribe of Israel? Seriously?

Only someone trying to insert outward circumcision into the body of Christ, would think that would make any Gentile a natural tribal member of the Jews.

Try that one on the natural Jews in the body of Christ. They'd reject it as an extremist version of Judaizing the body of Christ into natural tribes of Israel.

You know you're at the end of the rope, when scrambling for embarrassing offhand replies...People can get so caught up in their own personal interpretations, that they keep arguing them to the point of embarrassment, that only they don't see.

In a way, it's a marvel to watch it all derail. John almost admired how messed up Babylon the Great could be, in mangling their apostolic words of NT doctrine and prophecy.

..And when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman,

The great mystery I'm seeing, is just a deep seated unwillingness to be corrected on some personally favorite point.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Adding another unscriptural narrative?

Tribal Membership: Israel's twelve tribes were based on bloodline descent from Jacob = Israel.

Even after circumcision & full conversion, proselytes were not assigned into a specific tribe. They were considered Israelites in terms of covenant obligations & privileges, but they were given no tribal allotment of land.

Please provide the scripture that support your tribal assignment claim.

Please provide scripture that supports your claim. Rahab and Ruth are examples of a proselytes joining the tribe of Judah.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Uriah the Hittiite was a proselyte who likely belonged to the tribe of Judah or Benjamin (based on where he lived in Jerusalem). To make the claim that heroes of Israel like that weren't members of a tribe is just ridiculous.

 

[ATG]

Nope - not possible - not as a nation.

[Eze 20:24-25 KJV]
24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes [that were] not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

[Jer 3:8 KJV] 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

[Rom 9:23-25 KJV]
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

[1Pe 2:9-10 KJV]
9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

If I get your point right, it's spot on.

What Christian is trying to replace the natural tribes of Israel, with Gentile converts to Christ?? Even outward circumcision of a gentile doesn't make a Gentile a natural tribal member of the Jews.

The 144,000 NT sealed servants of God, being Jews and Gentiles, doesn't replace the Jews with Gentiles.

If there's any replacing going on, it's Judaizing the 144,000 to replace Gentiles from the service and body of Christ.

 

[memberofthebride]

We guys are interpreting NT Scripture of the 144,000 BY TAKING THE OBVIOUS COMPONENT of natural Judaism OFF THE TABLE


You're making stuff up by calling it "exclusive spiritual discernment".

The physical winds are held still, and the physical foreheads are sealed. Their physical bodies are resurrected to meet with the Lord in the physical air, standing on His heavenly physical mt Sion.

1Pe 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Eph 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

His chosen generated and holy nation of Israel, is physical on earth living holy as He is holy.

My comment

"""Their physical bodies""" are resurrected to meet with the Lord in the physical air, standing on His heavenly physical mt Sion.

You have misread the Word of God, at the First Resurrection the First Fruits will be raised with the same spirit body as Jesus Christ,
Philippians 3
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body,