The "Secret Rapture" is a False Doctrine.

[Reddogs]

We have a false doctrine that John Nelson Darby invented and spread during 1830-1833 which had not been held in Christianity, but slowly this idea got picked up and crept into Christianity and which has infected the world today. Many Churches began picking up the false Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture", which gives the people the idea that if you are a real Christian you will be caught up in the secret rapture to be with Christ. This "Secret Rapture" doctrine did not exist before John Darby invented it in 1830 and somehow came into a idea from him, no one had ever heard of a secret rapture doctrine. The only thing that even came close was a short essay that a student Morgan Edwards wrote as a college paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744 where the student confused the second coming with the first resurrection of Revelation 20 and described a "pre-tribulation" rapture. To arrive at this the Scripture has to be twisted and taken out of context. Here are some of the texts that have been quoted as referring to the rapture:-

1. The Church will meet Christ in the air - 1 Thessalonians 4:17
2. The Church will be taken to heaven - 1 Thessalonians 4:17
3. Christ will come for His saints - 2 Thessalonians 2:1
4. The rapture is a mystery - 1 Corinthians 15:51
5. The righteous will be removed - 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Lets take a look at the key verses starting with ! Thessalonians 4:13

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

This is nothing but the resurrection at the Second Coming which Jesus Christ Himself taught, we see it in the question Martha asked about her brother Lazarus who had died.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

We see the answer Jesus gave that even if people died they would be raised up.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And we see more from Christ..

Luke 14:14
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.
John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

One of the saints for eternal life, and then another will happen of the wicked to perdition, and we see it in Acts.

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

When Christ comes again the saints will be raised from the grave as is says, "and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" and then those saints still alive join them, as we see, "we which are alive and remain will be caught up with those that have been raised from the grave to be ever with the Lord Jesus Christ". This quote can fit nowhere else but the Second Coming of Jesus. And we are given this which clearly does away with the false "Secret Rapture" idea.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The rapture had to be invented in order to make dispensationalism work. It teaches that the lord will return to Israel to save them from the armies of the world gathered against them, but if all believers are removed from the earth when he returns at the 7th trumpet, as Paul wrote, then that teaching falls apart. All that will be left in Israel will be the ungodly upon whom the bowls of wrath are poured out

 

[homwardbound]

Didn't Christ already return?
He was dead in the grave, Seen as risen by over 500 witnesses, per 1 Cor 15, per each disciple as well.
He went to the grave willingly to reconcile us all to Father, to be given new life presently and forever from God through Son that is risen. Where this new is given by God Father through Son for us all. At least me, not denying God even whenever and have been in adversities also. Can we each go through it all and not deny God along the way? We all can, yet will we, whenever in troubles also? Job did, then Jesus to death first for us all willingly to be given new life presently now from Father,, in God's Spirit and Truth for anyone to believe God, Stand in belief, no matter what, can you, will I, will you? Col, 1:21-23
Is there more to do? Or is it done as said by Son, per John 19:30? Does what John predict John 1:29 "behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world" happen or not? Is that Done from Father's sight or not?
Break on through to God's Side in the risen Son for you too. John 4:23-24, under Law completed in Son. Done once for us all Hebrews 10:10 1 John 2:1-27

God did it, I stand in belief to God over it all. God Won through Son done once for us all to believe and be new in love and mercy too, you decide, I have.
Psalm 100:4 103:12, given the new Ezekiel 36:26


Mark 1:27
And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.
John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Ephesians 2:15
having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
1 John 2:7
Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1 John 2:8
Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

Believe, God, receive new from God and be new by God, thank you God lo ve to all, no more a few wow woe is me Isaiah 6:1-7

Time to see it and be new in it, no more self in the way


Authorized (King James) Version

Phil 3:1-4

3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

 

[Aaron56]

We have a false doctrine that John Nelson Darby invented and spread during 1830-1833 which had not been held in Christianity, but slowly this idea got picked up and crept into Christianity and which has infected the world today. Many Churches began picking up the false Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture", which gives the people the idea that if you are a real Christian you will be caught up in the secret rapture to be with Christ. This "Secret Rapture" doctrine did not exist before John Darby invented it in 1830 and somehow came into a idea from him, no one had ever heard of a secret rapture doctrine. The only thing that even came close was a short essay that a student Morgan Edwards wrote as a college paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744 where the student confused the second coming with the first resurrection of Revelation 20 and described a "pre-tribulation" rapture. To arrive at this the Scripture has to be twisted and taken out of context. Here are some of the texts that have been quoted as referring to the rapture:-

1. The Church will meet Christ in the air - 1 Thessalonians 4:17
2. The Church will be taken to heaven - 1 Thessalonians 4:17
3. Christ will come for His saints - 2 Thessalonians 2:1
4. The rapture is a mystery - 1 Corinthians 15:51
5. The righteous will be removed - 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Lets take a look at the key verses starting with ! Thessalonians 4:13

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

This is nothing but the resurrection at the Second Coming which Jesus Christ Himself taught, we see it in the question Martha asked about her brother Lazarus who had died.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

We see the answer Jesus gave that even if people died they would be raised up.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And we see more from Christ..

Luke 14:14
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.
John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

One of the saints for eternal life, and then another will happen of the wicked to perdition, and we see it in Acts.

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

When Christ comes again the saints will be raised from the grave as is says, "and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" and then those saints still alive join them, as we see, "we which are alive and remain will be caught up with those that have been raised from the grave to be ever with the Lord Jesus Christ". This quote can fit nowhere else but the Second Coming of Jesus. And we are given this which clearly does away with the false "Secret Rapture" idea.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Sigh.

It's time the mature, as a group, start asking "Why are so many in the church so obsessed with things like the pre-tribulation rapture, tithing, salvation by faith or works, politics, and having enough gold to weather a financial collapse?"

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Sigh.

It's time the mature, as a group, start asking "Why are so many in the church so obsessed with things like the pre-tribulation rapture, tithing, salvation by faith or works, politics, and having enough gold to weather a financial collapse?"

The Bible says to be ready when He comes. I don't need to care about when, I just need to be ready to go.

 

[studier]

Sigh.

2nd witness.

 

[Cameron143]

Sigh.

It's time the mature, as a group, start asking "Why are so many in the church so obsessed with things like the pre-tribulation rapture, tithing, salvation by faith or works, politics, and having enough gold to weather a financial collapse?"

How much would cover the collapse?

 

[timf]

If we are the body of Christ on earth, why would we be left to go through the tribulation. Why would Christ pour out wrath on his body?

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

If we are the body of Christ on earth, why would we be left to go through the tribulation. Why would Christ pour out wrath on his body?

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Tribulation is man's persecution of God's people. Wrath is God's destruction of the persecutors

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

If we are the body of Christ on earth, why would we be left to go through the tribulation. Why would Christ pour out wrath on his body?

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The great tribulation isn't God's wrath. It's Satan's (and the world's) wrath on God's people. We're not appointed to wrath, but we should expect tribulation like Jesus said.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Take comfort that Jesus will be with us and will enable us to endure in Him to the end.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Secret rapture = false?:

Precious friend @Reddogs, looks as if @Tall_Timbers and I also Disagree, Because Rightly Divided, we find In "What Saith The Scriptures?", The Following:

God's Great GRACE Departure!

Grace, Peace, Mercy, And Love

And, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified In
The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

Basic Distinctions Between Prophecy and Mystery
+
“Things That Differ”

Amen.

 

[Gideon300]

The rapture had to be invented in order to make dispensationalism work. It teaches that the lord will return to Israel to save them from the armies of the world gathered against them, but if all believers are removed from the earth when he returns at the 7th trumpet, as Paul wrote, then that teaching falls apart. All that will be left in Israel will be the ungodly upon whom the bowls of wrath are poured out

The faithful will be taken up, not secretly either, before the tribulation. Israel will be deceived by the Antichrist. Those who get saved during the tribulation, and there will be multitudes, will suffer the wrath of the Antichrist. Those who worship the Antichrist will suffer the wrath of Lord Jesus.

At the last, Lord Jesus will stand on the Mount of Olives. Not Mount Rushmore, or any other place on earth. Lord Jesus ascended into heaven from the Mount of Olives and that is where He will return.

Feel free to go through the tribulation. Jesus is returning for those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 9:28. Personally, I prefer to go home beforehand.

 

[Reddogs]

The rapture had to be invented in order to make dispensationalism work. It teaches that the lord will return to Israel to save them from the armies of the world gathered against them, but if all believers are removed from the earth when he returns at the 7th trumpet, as Paul wrote, then that teaching falls apart. All that will be left in Israel will be the ungodly upon whom the bowls of wrath are poured out

Satan brings many diversions from the truth, and uses even so called 'men of God' who like Balaam go out to do great harm rather than good to Gods people.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Satan brings many diversions from the truth, and uses even so called 'men of God' who like Balaam go out to do great harm rather than good to Gods people.

It'll be interesting surely when the antichrist is revealed and the daily sacrifices abolished and we'll all still be here to experience what's to come.

What will happen? A lot of panic and falling away. Expect betrayal from them. Some who love God so much, will quickly adjust and endure persecution and loss in the Lord, even unto death.

 

[Follower777]

Sigh.

It's time the mature, as a group, start asking "Why are so many in the church so obsessed with things like the pre-tribulation rapture, tithing, salvation by faith or works, politics, and having enough gold to weather a financial collapse?"

Why are people so obsessed with these things ?
Because some of those matters are salvational issues. And others show where our allegiance lies.
Salvational as in, Whether Jesus is going to find our name written in the Book of Life, OR NOT.
Which is determined by if we Believe & Follow Jesus, OR NOT ... unto salvation, to inherit eternal life, OR NOT.
Jesus obeyed His Father's Will, ... Believed and had Faith in His Father and Loved US to death ... We NEED to have that same Faith and Love as Jesus did, .~~~~~> or ELSE

 

[Follower777]

It'll be interesting surely when the antichrist is revealed and the daily sacrifices abolished and we'll all still be here to experience what's to come.

The Antichrist has been revealed for 500+ years, ever since ALL the Protestant Reformers understood Bible Prophecy correctly and pointed out, that the Papacy was and is the Antichrist, which WAS a BIG part of the Protestant Reformation.
Do you not believe history or Bible Prophecy?

Daniel 12:11 states:

"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." (Daniel 12:11, KJV)​

​

This is referring to the end of the daily sacrifice that occurred with the death of Jesus Christ on the cross. The term "daily sacrifice" and relates to the sacrificial system in the Old Testament, which was fulfilled in Christ's death.

1. Understanding the "Daily Sacrifice":
In Daniel 12:11, the "daily sacrifice" is traditionally understood to represent the continual offerings in the sanctuary system, which were part of the Old Testament sacrificial system (Exodus 29:38-42, Leviticus 6:8-13). These daily offerings were performed in the sanctuary, both in the morning and evening, to atone for the sins of the people.

The "daily sacrifice" was taken away with the death of Jesus Christ on the cross. This is a significant moment in Christian theology, as Christ's death marked the end of the need for the continuous sacrificial system. Jesus Himself became the Lamb of God (John 1:29) who took away the sins of the world, fulfilling the sacrificial system's purpose once and for all. As the writer of Hebrews explains:

"For the law, having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect." (Hebrews 10:1, KJV)​

​

The "daily sacrifice" in the sanctuary, pointing forward to Christ's sacrifice, was fulfilled and ended with His death on the cross (Matthew 27:50-51), when the veil of the temple was torn, symbolizing that the earthly sanctuary and its sacrifices were no longer needed (Matthew 27:51). Daniel 12:11 refers to this pivotal event, when Jesus's sacrifice replaced the old system.

2. The "Abomination of Desolation":
The second part of Daniel 12:11 speaks of the "abomination that makes desolate" being set up after the daily sacrifice is taken away. This is often interpreted as referring to the corruption and perversion of the gospel and the introduction of false worship, particularly during the period of papal supremacy.

The "abomination of desolation" in Daniel is mentioned in other parts of the Bible, notably in Daniel 9:27, where it is connected to the abomination set up in the temple, which Jesus also refers to in Matthew 24:15. In Matthew 24:15, Jesus says:

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand." (Matthew 24:15, KJV)​

​

The abomination of desolation refers to the corruption of true worship during the Middle Ages, particularly under the papacy, which replaced true Christian worship with idolatrous practices. The Roman Catholic Church was responsible for establishing false systems of worship, in opposition to the true gospel.

3. Why Daniel 12:11 is Not Referring to the Antichrist:Some interpretations of Daniel 12:11 link the "abomination of desolation" to the revealing of the Antichrist. However, the biblical argument against this view lies in the context of Daniel's prophecy and the specific historical fulfillment of the event. Here's why Daniel 12:11 does not refer to the Antichrist:

• Historical Context: The phrase "abomination of desolation" is used in the Bible not to point to a future Antichrist figure, but to describe the desecration of the Jewish sanctuary and false worship. In Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11:31, the "abomination" is linked to events in the past, particularly to Antiochus Epiphanes, who desecrated the Jewish temple in the second century B.C. However, in Matthew 24:15, Jesus used the term to point to future desecration in the first century, specifically the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Therefore, this abomination does not refer to a future Antichrist figure, but to the false worship and spiritual desolation that began long ago and continued through the history of the church.
• The abomination of desolation refers to the perversion of the gospel and false systems of worship that arose with the Roman papacy.
  The "abomination" refers to the perversion of true worship rather than a single Antichrist figure.
• Jesus' Fulfillment of the Sacrificial System: As noted earlier, Jesus' death marked the end of the sacrificial system, not the beginning of a future antichrist figure's rise. Daniel 12:11, therefore, is speaking about the historical end of the Old Testament sacrificial system in Jesus' death (AD 31), not about a future revelation of the Antichrist.

Conclusion:
Daniel 12:11 is referring to the end of the daily sacrifice and the desecration of true worship — the sacrificial system that was fulfilled in Jesus' death on the cross. The "abomination of desolation" points to the corruption of the gospel through false worship, especially the system that arose during the period of papal supremacy, not to a future Antichrist figure. This interpretation aligns with the biblical understanding, of Biblical Prophecy, concerning this subject.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

This is referring to the end of the daily sacrifice that occurred with the death of Jesus Christ on the cross. The term "daily sacrifice" and relates to the sacrificial system in the Old Testament, which was fulfilled in Christ's death.

I'm not talking about the daily sacrifices of Jesus' time. The Jews' daily sacrifices will be restarted when the third temple is built in the future.

 

[Psalm1]

If we are the body of Christ on earth, why would we be left to go through the tribulation. Why would Christ pour out wrath on his body?

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Bingo.
Postrib wife beater doctrine.
The theory is we need "cleansing", and the AC will beat us into worthiness.

Posribbers can not read the pretrib verses
They are forbidden by some strange force.

 

[Psalm1]

Satan brings many diversions from the truth, and uses even so called 'men of God' who like Balaam go out to do great harm rather than good to Gods people.

Exactly
Pretrib rapture verses will never go away.

It is a wonderment how the pretrib verses are hidden from postribbers.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Posribbers can not read the pretrib verses
They are forbidden by some strange force.

That strange force is a vacuum because those verses don't exist in real life. They only exist in your rmind