Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

John 17 paraphrase

 

[Magenta]

John 17 verses 2 ~ You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him.[/SIZE]

 

[John1335]

That is why this kind of format always ends up with blood splattering the walls, because there is no real authority that is needed to keep things under control and moving ahead.

It might be used of God for spiritual training of those capable.
But, otherwise, it is like walking into ambushes by the natives on a daily basis.

It is conflict training for growth for some.
And a place to quickly back out of, for others.
It is like walking into a spiritual pin-ball machine.

grace and peace ............

After spending eight years in a hellish relationship with covert narcissist, this forum has an all to familiar vibe for me.
I've had all the training I desire.

>>> slowly backing out the door

Much love, much peace.
Well said.

 

[Magenta]

After spending eight years in a hellish relationship with covert narcissist, this forum has an all to familiar vibe for me.
I've had all the training I desire.

>>> slowly backing out the door

Much love, much peace.
Well said.

You keep saying you are leaving, but here you still are. In another thread as well.

This seems to be a pattern with you.

Should I say good bye again?

Oh, but why leave? You fit right in after all.

 

[John1335]

Yes, this another one of those situations.

Its probably just the conspiratorial side of me at work here, but I have occasionally wondered, seeing just how unholy and unfruitful the average "christian" forum appears to be, if perhaps they are nothing more than clever facades erected by the devil himself to keep a close eye on the opposition.

Whether he has a hand in them or not, no doubt these sites provide him an endless source of amusement. I would say glee, but being a narcissist and the father of narcissists, any semblance of joy is far beyond his emotional capabilities

 

[Magenta]

It is somewhat comforting to know that there are others here in this forum who see the doctrine of demons for what
they truly are, and there is fellowship to be had in between all the lies from free willers and all their hypocrisy.

But we were after all told the world would hate us.

Jesus' words in John 15 verse 19 and John 14 verse 17 ~ If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.

 

[HeIsHere]

Its probably just the conspiratorial side of me at work here, but I have occasionally wondered, seeing just how unholy and unfruitful the average "christian" forum appears to be, if perhaps they are nothing more than clever facades erected by the devil himself to keep a close eye on the opposition.

Whether he has a hand in them or not, no doubt these sites provide him an endless source of amusement. I would say glee, but being a narcissist and the father of narcissists, any semblance of joy is far beyond his emotional capabilities

Yes, I am sure that some are paid as well, a member once mentioned this to me a few years back, and at the time I thought nothing of it, but now I think there is truth to it.

 

[Magenta]

Its probably just the conspiratorial side of me at work here, but I have occasionally wondered, seeing just how unholy and unfruitful the average "christian" forum appears to be, if perhaps they are nothing more than clever facades erected by the devil himself to keep a close eye on the opposition.

Whether he has a hand in them or not, no doubt these sites provide him an endless source of amusement. I would say glee, but being a narcissist and the father of narcissists, any semblance of joy is far beyond his emotional capabilities

Notice the one giving you a gold ribbon is a God blasphemer?

Oh, no, how would you know that?

Maybe you will find out...

 

[rogerg]

Where does scripture say that if Christ died for a person that this means they will effectually be saved?

Here:

[Mat 1:21 KJV]
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

[Rom 8:33-34 KJV]
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

[Tit 2:14 KJV]
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

[Eph 4-5 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

[Genez]

You lied about something and are being called out on it. Stop calling it something else.

You pretend to defend the faith by attacking me. You are disgusting.

Go, take your unicorn with you…
And have your tantrum someplace else.

He is King of kings.
Not everyone is going to reign with him.

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,​

And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.​

Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,​

He also has rejected you from being king.”​

​

1 Samuel 15:23​

​

Yes! He is King of kings.
Not everyone is going to reign with him!

 

[Nedsk]

Welcome! The answer is in what Scripture says of man, not what man says of himself or what philosophy teaches.

Here the discussion revolves around what Scripture says of the natural man being a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light as a God-hater taken captive to do the will of the devil, opposed to the spiritual things of God, which he can neither receive nor comprehend, but yet we have many here contradicting and denying what Scripture says of the natural man. They claim the man of flesh, flesh within which nothing good exists, which serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death, will decide with his incurably wicked heart to believe what he hears as foolishness. They are not above rewriting verses to make them say what they want even if it is Jesus' words they are butchering. In short, they have put a philosophical construct before the Truth explicitly articulated in Scripture. They ascribe to the natural man qualities, characteristics, and abilities that are true only of the spiritual man, and then to prop up this error, pretend the natural man is a carnal Christian and not the man who is not indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God.

Part of the problem is that people think that making choices equates to the will being free. They say such things as, if the will is not free, then people are puppets. This is a logical fallacy. Making mundane choices does not in any way address what the Bible teaches about man's will being enslaved to sin, blinded to the truth, unable to hear, incapable of submitting to God, a lover of darkness, refusing to come into the light, hearing the gospel as foolishness, unable to receive or comprehend the spiritual things of God, to which he is opposed and to Whom he is hostile toward while under the power and influence of the devil, as is the whole world, out of which believers have been called. Thinking your will is free simply because you can choose what colour of socks to wear or what to have for lunch, or whether to do the right or wrong things, or what book to choose out of the mountains of them available, has no bearing on the eternal fate of your soul, and mixing those things in with what the Bible teaches about the estate of fallen man is a distraction from the real issue.

This is the crux of the conversation, such as it is, for it is out of man's nature that he makes choices, and it is with the heart that one believes... the free will proponents essentially assert that the incurably wicked heart of the natural/unregenerated man is free to choose to believe that which he is not only opposed to, but that which he can neither receive/accept nor comprehend while in the flesh as are all before becoming indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God. They have the man with zero wisdom acting wise to do God's will when Scripture says that man cannot, that flesh cannot please God, that flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death, not life, and is unable to submit to or obey God. And their idea of wisdom is that person choosing to believe what they hear as foolishness. They reject what Jesus said about it being impossible for a bad tree to bring forth good fruit... there are none good, no, not one! Even when asked who can be saved, Jesus said that with man it was impossible, and there are other places where we are explicitly told it is not by the will of the flesh or man but by God's will that any are saved. Some philosophers and philosophy books have said man has a will that is free and that is enough for many to parrot what they hear and throw over a slew of Scriptural truths. They ascribe to the natural man qualities, characteristics, and abilities possessed only by the spiritual man.

Did Jesus have free will or did he just have choices?

 

[Cameron143]

Why don't you answer? You might learn something.

 

[Rufus]

Sometimes an accusation is a confession.

An "accusation" doesn't explain what makes God's highly resistible grace so "special".

 

[Genez]

After spending eight years in a hellish relationship with covert narcissist, this forum has an all too familiar vibe for me.
I've had all the training I desire.

>>> slowly backing out the door

Much love, much peace.
Well said.

You nailed it.

I am in training.
The lesson is titled.

"How to disassemble ghost lighting in the Spirit."

It requires developing coordinating the Holy Spirit with a part of your brain most people have no need for developing.

But, if one is going to be in the public arena?

It becomes a must to condition oneself.

This place has become my work-out gym.

grace and peace ............

 

[Rufus]

That is insane.

But, you say it because you know some will agree with how you said something.
Not what you said. But how you said it.

What's insane is all you professing Christians, who subscribe to FWT, could not bring yourselves to freely confess what should have been the only and obvious Christian answer to my question. Your SILENCE spoke volumes about the state of your heart! LONG live EVIL in the world -- as long as it protects the sanctity of "freewill". Your silence also speaks much to the moral bankruptcy of FWT.

 

[Rufus]

Good question...

If Calvinism is true, why does it matter if salvation is by faith, or work… it’s actually by election

A works based chosen one is just as saved as a faith alone believer.

Because Faith is incorporated into God's plan and purpose. There's no such soteriological animal as a "works-based chosen one".

 

[Genez]

Here:

[Mat 1:21 KJV]
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

He also saved all unbelievers from making their sins the issue in their final judgment.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. ​

​

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1Jnn 2:1-2​

 

[Rufus]

He also saved all unbelievers from making their sins the issue in their final judgment.

not only for our sins but whole world


He did not say he is leaving the entire forum.

Unbelievers will die in their sins and will be judged accordingly.

 

[Genez]

Why don't you answer? You might learn something.

Those who endure to the end will see Cameron getting his just reward.

God will not be mocked forever.

 

[BillyBob]

There is the God of the Christian Bible and then there is this ....


View attachment 282847

Seems like a statement that accurately reflects the God of the Bible. After all, we are told “I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.”
Oh, I forgot! You believe this makes Him unfair. . . .