Loss of salvation???

[studier]

Adam and Eve did not “believe” or “accept” the promise for it to be true; it was God's unilateral Covenantal work. Faith, belief, and endurance are gifts produced by God, not prerequisites for salvation.

Greek distorts the pure Gospel. Salvation is not “offered” or “conditional”, it is Finished and Gifted to us Freely by God’s Covenantal Love, Grace and Mercy, without any human (Greek) qualifiers at the cross.

This sounds like a hybrid of Western theologies, including at minimum Calvinism and secondarily Free-Grace, blended with selective Hebraic reinterpretation.

 

[studier]

The True Gospel is as follows:

Christ Alone = Christ Crucified = Atonement = Justification = Sanctification = Glorification

Greek skewed minds cannot accept the True Gospel because theirs is a foreign Gospel, one contrary to “Christ crucified”.

Christ Alone + Nothing…

Your “True Gospel” removes Faith Alone and strings together standard Western recognized categories -atonement, justification, sanctification, glorification from the Greek Text - without explaining how salvation is received or applied. It just seems more of the hybrid I previously mentioned.

 

[lrs68]

Hebrew...see post 4087

Yes, yes yes...I know the consensus view is Greek no doubt...that's what all the scholars say, and we know experts are never wrong.

"Gentiles may have rewritten the narrate of original NT Hebrew writings.

Ignoring the inherent NT internal evidence that brings into question some serious problems with the Greek without any critical thought and accepting the consensus scholarly view because they "know" is not unlike believing Mayorkas that the border was closed though millions of aliens infiltrated our country, like the 50 intelligence officials who claimed Hunters laptop was Russian disinformation or how 2/3's of the country bought into everyone needed the Covid shot."

If the New Testament Greek were truly original, why it would contain such errors as we see in Matthew and 1 John. On top of that, the Greek (and later English) tradition deliberately replaced YHVH with “Lord,” which obscures the Hebraic voice behind the text.

If we recognize errors in the Greek like those in Matthew and 1 John, or the substitution of YHVH with “Lord” — and acknowledge that its underlying voice is Hebraic, then we can treat it as a translation rather than the original writings. From that perspective, the Gospel becomes unmistakably clear: it has always been Christ + Nothing.

If I tried to argue strictly from the Greek New Testament — assuming it was itself a translation from an earlier Hebrew NT — it would be like rewriting the NT in a “Caveman” dialect, suppressing the original Scriptures, and then forcing all exegesis to be done verse by verse from that Caveman version. The result would be endless debates: Caveman purists defending “OSAS” against others who found Caveman verses that seemed to contradict it. The loop would never end, because the argument would be trapped inside the Caveman translation itself.

Instead, if NT Caveman (Greek) is a translation from earlier Hebrew then we should step back and look at what we know of God’s nature from the beginning: His covenants, His cutting a New Covenant because the Old was a covenant of death (since we could not keep it), and the thread of His unilateral salvation woven throughout the Bible.

That broader witness shows us His consistent plan along with the Hebraic linguistic construct that entirely permeates NT Caveman (Greek).

NT Greek is an entirely different Gospel than the Hebraic Gospel; a Salvation dependent on me vs on Christ crucified.

Greek distorts the pure Gospel. Salvation is not “offered” or “conditional”, it is Finished and Gifted to us Freely by God’s Covenantal Love, Grace and Mercy, without any human (Greek) qualifiers at the cross.

The True Gospel is as follows:

Christ Alone = Christ Crucified = Atonement = Justification = Sanctification = Glorification

Greek skewed minds cannot accept the True Gospel because theirs is a foreign Gospel, one contrary to “Christ crucified”.

Don't forget about the original Aramaic Talitha in the Gospel of Mark that was left untranslated because the Greek had no words that meant the same as what Jesus said in this passage of Scripture.

Even on the Cross Eli Eli llama sabachthani is original language that the Greek had no words with the same meaning so it was left as Jesus literally spoke them.

 

[studier]

I think that is an unfair comment as @ChristRoseFromTheDead and I have been trading scriptures. We seem to invariably disagree as to their meaning but then, there is nothing new under the sun.

My apology to you and whoever has been dealing earlier with Scripture having to do more pointedly with the loss-of-salvation topic of the thread. I should have been clearer that I was speaking of where this discussion is now and how it's being turned to an overall general theory based in some hybrid version of Hebrew-roots and reformed and ??? theologies. Even the security issue is seemingly now more general overall theological statements.

 

[Caveman]

How many times are you going to keep repeating the same thing over and over? Is that all you know how to do? I think you would gain some credibility if you would try to address issues that have been raised, instead of just ignoring them. Like why would the disciples make the effort to write in Hebrew when the common people didn't speak Hebrew? The Greek Septuagint was in common use during that period, so people would have been familiar with it and used it. Paul quoted frequently from it. Most OT quotes in the NT are from the Septuagint. The disciples likely would have known more Greek than Hebrew because Aramaic and Greek were the languages spoken in the area they came from.

Ironic you accuse me of repetition when my view isn’t “rarely posted”...it’s never posted. Meanwhile, there are 205 pages of ES vs OSAS debates with your same tired ‘Nawww‑ahhh‑uhhh’ attached to anything outside Greek‑meistic orthodoxy, clinging to a foreign gospel of works disguised as faith.


So when someone other than Nebal know‑it‑all engages, I’ll repeat this view to erudite folks willing to think beyond the Greek‑induced matrix, where ES and OSAS remain unresolved because the Greek skewed the True Gospel — Christ crucified + nothing.


Isn’t it hypocritical to bypass the issues I’ve raised? I especially don’t need CRFTD creds to make my point.


Paul’s Greek citations reflect his Gentile mission, not the disciples’ roots. In Judea, Aramaic was daily speech and Hebrew the language of scripture.


Josephus testified that Jews preserved their language despite centuries of conquest, and the Maccabees resisted Hellenization to keep Hebrew and Aramaic alive. Greek was the missionary tool, not the mother tongue of the Gospel.


These examples in Matthew 23:2–3 and John 1:1 as well as replacing YHVH with Lord show that the Greek New Testament carries marks of translation rather than original composition.


These inconsistencies make sense only if Greek is a translation adapted for diaspora and Gentile audiences, while the true original would have likely been in Hebrew, rooted in covenantal language and continuity with Moses which is consistent with the Hebraic linguistic construct which permeates throughout the NT.


CRFTD…ever the sage, though clarity and insight rarely follow.”

 

[Caveman]

Don't forget about the original Aramaic Talitha in the Gospel of Mark that was left untranslated because the Greek had no words that meant the same as what Jesus said in this passage of Scripture.

Even on the Cross Eli Eli llama sabachthani is original language that the Greek had no words with the same meaning so it was left as Jesus literally spoke them.

Sephardic Hebrew NT manuscripts:
“Eli, Eli, lamah azavtani” (Hebrew).
Greek NT manuscripts:
“Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani” (Aramaic).

 

[Caveman]

Your “True Gospel” removes Faith Alone and strings together standard Western recognized categories -atonement, justification, sanctification, glorification from the Greek Text - without explaining how salvation is received or applied. It just seems more of the hybrid I previously mentioned.

This is how the Greek has skewed up the Gospel ("Faith Alone") with their meistic mess...and is why you will never via the Greek NT ever resolve ES and OSAS because the Greek has mucked up the simple Gospel...it is His faithfulness not yours; that is conclusive via the Hebraic Covenantal thread throughout the Bible.

Christ alone, Christ crucified, atonement, justification, sanctification, glorification

You, I we...could not be faithful in the Old Covenant and you are not faithful in the New Covenant...His was faithful in the Old and He is in the New...we are the Blessed recipients who hopefully cooperate with the Transformation He is making in us.... thankful we should be that's it.

You look up the Scriptures...I know you know them...Christ slain from the foundation of the world, Christ died for the ungodly; Christ made atonement which meant Justification and those He justified He glorified.

God wins it all...no thanks to us...

 

[studier]

Amen...and you can see clearly whose Faith it speaks of that Guards us unto Salvation if we strip away the Greek influence mist...

Hebraic Recasting of 1 Peter 1:3–5

Blessed is the God of our Lord Jesus the Messiah. In His great mercy He gave us new birth. He raised Messiah from the dead, and we have hope. He gives us an inheritance that cannot be destroyed, cannot be defiled, and does not fade. It is kept in heaven for His people. By His power, because He is faithful, He guards us until salvation is revealed at the end.​

Emphasis is Our Covenant keeping Father...not our feckless feeble faithfulness...

The whole reason the New Covenant was made is because we are unfaithful...so because of His great love He enacted the New that was not defendant on our faithfulness but His to ensure our Salvation because He hid us within Christ.

Christ Crucified + nothing...

Did you compose this recasting paraphrase of 1Pet or get it from someone else?

Have you recast all Scriptures that mention faith?

How do you read or recast the first 2 verses in regard to the issue of being chosen?

 

[Caveman]

In 2 Cor11:4, Paul warns the Corinthians about specific false teachers proclaiming “another Jesus” or a “different gospel” than the one he delivered. He is not issuing a sweeping critique of all Western theology as you are suggesting. We could just as easily turn this verse against you or anyone we think is teaching an invalid gospel.

Questions:

• Very briefly and succinctly, what exactly is your “Caveman NC” version of the true gospel? What does “Christ + Nothing” mean in practical terms?
  • Since it seems you are taking human response out of consideration, does God simply choose who He will save and not save?
• Do you follow or agree with anyone else who teaches all that you believe, or is your position a synthesis of several sources and are any of them what you'd consider a main source? Please identify such.

Like Josephs brother didn't recognize him because he looked Egyptian (Greek)...the Greek NT presents another Gospel; a foreign one of works dressed to look like faith.

It pretty obvious the Greek linguistic construct has changed the Gospel emphasis away from Christ crucified to Christ + my faith ect.

It is a different Gospel...I am doing nothing but giving God the glory and showing how the Greek places the emphasis on our faith rather than His faithfulness. This is self-evident...but people love to have a hand in their salvation; and is why the Greek Gospel resonates so deeply with them.

Like the pharisees who didn't care about the Torah of God as much as they cared about their man-imposed traditions which is why they hated Christ and why Greek Gospel entrenched adherents refuse to see what is plainly in front of them...because they like the Meistic Greek Gospel...just as the Pharisees loved their tradition above the Torah.

 

[Caveman]

These verses show distortions of God’s Word in specific contexts - some by Hebrews themselves. They do not address Greek distortion or Western theology, as you apply them. Why should we think you are not distorting God’s Word in the same way that has been happening since the beginning?

Here it is...Greek’s covenant distortion; framed as conditional on man’s faith, belief, and endurance.

I am pointing out what is there...don't believe me...just look at what it is doing.

 

[Caveman]

In 1 Cor2:2, Paul is emphasizing the wisdom of God revealed in the crucifixion of His Son. Western theology and the Greek Text present a Christ-centered gospel clearly, and this verse is not a stand-alone proof for your Hebraic “Christ + Nothing” system.

I'll may later come back to the covenant issues you raise. Let's first succinctly clarify the "Caveman NC" gospel.

We can see by what the Greek NT teaches what the Gospel is not...conditional on man’s faith, belief, and endurance.

 

[Caveman]

This sounds like a hybrid of Western theologies, including at minimum Calvinism and secondarily Free-Grace, blended with selective Hebraic reinterpretation.

You argue it is Finished and Gifted to us Freely (Salvation)? by God’s Covenantal Love, Grace and Mercy, without any human (Greek) qualifiers at the cross.

 

[Caveman]

Did you compose this recasting paraphrase of 1Pet or get it from someone else?

Have you recast all Scriptures that mention faith?

How do you read or recast the first 2 verses in regard to the issue of being chosen?

you answer my retorts for a change...

 

[studier]

This is how the Greek has skewed up the Gospel ("Faith Alone") with their meistic mess...and is why you will never via the Greek NT ever resolve ES and OSAS because the Greek has mucked up the simple Gospel...it is His faithfulness not yours; that is conclusive via the Hebraic Covenantal thread throughout the Bible.

Christ alone, Christ crucified, atonement, justification, sanctification, glorification

You, I we...could not be faithful in the Old Covenant and you are not faithful in the New Covenant...His was faithful in the Old and He is in the New...we are the Blessed recipients who hopefully cooperate with the Transformation He is making in us.... thankful we should be that's it.

You look up the Scriptures...I know you know them...Christ slain from the foundation of the world, Christ died for the ungodly; Christ made atonement which meant Justification and those He justified He glorified.

God wins it all...no thanks to us...

So, having noted that you deleted the “Faith Alone” slogan and confirmed this deletion, how exactly are men entered into the covenant or saved in your system? How do men become "Blessed recipients"?

And we just hopefully cooperate with the "Transformation He is making in us" - there no necessity or requirement to cooperate or even be thankful?

 

[studier]

Like Josephs brother didn't recognize him because he looked Egyptian (Greek)...the Greek NT presents another Gospel; a foreign one of works dressed to look like faith.

It pretty obvious the Greek linguistic construct has changed the Gospel emphasis away from Christ crucified to Christ + my faith ect.

It is a different Gospel...I am doing nothing but giving God the glory and showing how the Greek places the emphasis on our faith rather than His faithfulness. This is self-evident...but people love to have a hand in their salvation; and is why the Greek Gospel resonates so deeply with them.

Like the pharisees who didn't care about the Torah of God as much as they cared about their man-imposed traditions which is why they hated Christ and why Greek Gospel entrenched adherents refuse to see what is plainly in front of them...because they like the Meistic Greek Gospel...just as the Pharisees loved their tradition above the Torah.

I don't see any answers to my questions or any response to my concern about how you're using the verse you cited.

 

[Caveman]

So, having noted that you deleted the “Faith Alone” slogan and confirmed this deletion, how exactly are men entered into the covenant or saved in your system? How do men become "Blessed recipients"?

And we just hopefully cooperate with the "Transformation He is making in us" - there no necessity or requirement to cooperate or even be thankful?

One is Salvational His work and the other relational our work He has given (cooperative work) no bearing on Salvation

"how exactly are men entered into the covenant or saved in your system? How do men become "Blessed recipients"?

At the cross...atonement = justification

 

[studier]

Here it is...Greek’s covenant distortion; framed as conditional on man’s faith, belief, and endurance.

I am pointing out what is there...don't believe me...just look at what it is doing.

I don't see you clarifying how men become "Blessed recipients" in the first place.

 

[studier]

We can see by what the Greek NT teaches what the Gospel is not...conditional on man’s faith, belief, and endurance.

Again, you've not clarified how men become "Blessed recipients".

 

[studier]

You argue it is Finished and Gifted to us Freely (Salvation)? by God’s Covenantal Love, Grace and Mercy, without any human (Greek) qualifiers at the cross.

I don't understand what you mean here. I'm simply asking you to better explain how your system works. How do men become "Blessed recipients"?

 

[Caveman]

I don't see any answers to my questions or any response to my concern about how you're using the verse you cited.

I take notice how you bristle at the Gospel being Christ alone...because like the pharisee's loved their tradition over Gods Torah, people so want to have something to do with their receiving or keeping their Salvation... and the Greek Gospel provides it in abundance.; but recognize it is a different Gospel than Christ crucified.