144,000: The first resurrection and rapture of the church

[ATG]

In Rev 7, the 144,000 are sealed in the forehead on earth. In Rev 14 the 144,000 are sealed with the name of the Father, and they are now standing with the Lamb of God on Mt Sion.

Therefore, the 144,000 are resurrected and ascended with the Lamb Jesus Christ. This must be the first resurrection of the blessed and holy saints of God. There are only two resurrections from the dead (Other than that of the man Jesus Christ), where the first resurrection is all saints, and the next resurrection of the rest of the dead, includes both the good and the bad, whose names are written and not written in the Lamb's book of life.

In Rev 7, the angels holding the winds still over the earth, are them that seal the servants of God in their foreheads. This is collectively altogether at once, just as the resurrection and immortal changing of the saints on earth, is collectively in a moment and twinkling of the eye.

The angels are standing at the four corners of the earth holding the four winds, which is also from where the resurrected saints will be gathered to meet and stand with Jesus in the air.

Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And so, we have the first resurrection, rapture, and congregation with the Lord at His return to earth.

 

[ATG]

Explanations:

1. The sealing of the servants of God in the forehead with the name of the Father, cannot be the present and ongoing anointing and seal of the Holy Ghost.

2Co 1:21
Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1. The seal is made by angels, not the Spirit Himself.
2. The seal will be visible on the forehead, rather than only spiritually in the heart at present.
3. The seal is at the time of the Lord's return to earth, to receive His own unto Himself, and with wrath for them remaining on the earth.

Rev 6:16
And they said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2. The 144, 000 are not all the saints dwelling with God and the Lamb in New Jerusalem on the new earth. Because that innumerable company cannot be numbered:

Rev 7:9
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Though the 144,000 can be a wholly complete number, they are still numbered.

3. The 144,000 cannot be only the natural children of Israel, since all the names of the tribes engraved on the high priest's ephod, are not written in Rev 7. Dan is not included, so that the Scripture is broken between the Old and New Testament names.

With His resurrection, all believers in Jesus Christ are the servants and Israel of God, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Nor does the prophecy of the 144,000 say anything about sending Christian Jews to evangelize unbelieving Jews.

And, once again, since the first resurrection is not only of Christian Jews, but of all Christian servants and saints, then the 144,000 in Rev 14, that are resurrected and standing with the Lamb Jesus Christ, cannot only be Christian Jews.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Precious friend Robert, then, of course, there is This Rightly
Divided View:

God's Great GRACE Departure! {aka rapture}

And, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified In
The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

Basic Distinctions Between Prophecy and Mystery
+
“Things That Differ”

Amen.

 

[Howdy]

In Rev 7, the 144,000 are sealed in the forehead on earth. In Rev 14 the 144,000 are sealed with the name of the Father, and they are now standing with the Lamb of God on Mt Sion.

Therefore, the 144,000 are resurrected and ascended with the Lamb Jesus Christ. This must be the first resurrection of the blessed and holy saints of God. There are only two resurrections from the dead (Other than that of the man Jesus Christ), where the first resurrection is all saints, and the next resurrection of the rest of the dead, includes both the good and the bad, whose names are written and not written in the Lamb's book of life.

In Rev 7, the angels holding the winds still over the earth, are them that seal the servants of God in their foreheads. This is collectively altogether at once, just as the resurrection and immortal changing of the saints on earth, is collectively in a moment and twinkling of the eye.

The angels are standing at the four corners of the earth holding the four winds, which is also from where the resurrected saints will be gathered to meet and stand with Jesus in the air.

Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And so, we have the first resurrection, rapture, and congregation with the Lord at His return to earth.

Why not just accept who the Scriptures says the 144,000 are?
12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Psalm 125:1
They that trust in the Lord shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.

Psalm 132:13
For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation(Heart/Holy Spirit).

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Why not just accept who the Scriptures says the 144,000 are?
12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.

When God was showing me the things that were to take place,He came to visit me the night before the testimony of Two Witnesses, and blew his breath on me,and I was transformed.Then he left saying he had others to see.
That's what will happen to the 144,000 who are placed all over the earth.They will be in Spiritual Israel,which is the true Israel.

 

[Wansvic]

When God was showing me the things that were to take place,He came to visit me the night before the testimony of Two Witnesses, and blew his breath on me,and I was transformed.Then he left saying he had others to see.
That's what will happen to the 144,000 who are placed all over the earth.They will be in Spiritual Israel,which is the true Israel.

The 144,000 are actual descendents of the OT tribes of Israel as revealed in Rev. 7:4-8. Afterward Verse 9 references those who make up Spiritual Israel; a great multitude of peoples from all nations.

"And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;" Rev. 7:4-9

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

The 144,000 are actual descendents of the OT tribes of Israel as revealed in Rev. 7:4-8. Afterward Verse 9 references those who make up Spiritual Israel; a great multitude of peoples from all nations.

"And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;" Rev. 7:4-9

I'm not sure if those who are of the 144,000 are from actual descendants of the original 12 tribes of Israel who are scattered ,or if it is a mix of both original and those who are grafted in.But it doesn't start in the state of Israel.God planted the seeds of the 144,000 all over the earth.A lot,if not all of them went/go through trials and tribulations because God puts them into the furnace of affliction to rid them of dross.
I saw that too.A line of people standing in a very hot place waiting to be inspected by God and hearing his voice being delighted in what he has to work with before refining them with fire and then admiring his finished work.Some placed in longer than others.

If you were like those in Psalm 125:1 then the top of Mount Zion is your head.Having your mind set for God is like having 2 stone tablets with the word of God written on them because the brain itself is halved.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

The 144,000 will be transformed and then come back down with the testimony of the Two Witnesses.
There is nothing new under the sun.What once was will be again.What has happen on Mount Sinai and Mount Zion happens spiritually to every born again believer.

Before you gave yourself to the Lord it all started with a thought.That was the Word being placed in your head.Then you took it to the heart.What happen after that?You repented.Spiritually it is Just like Moses coming down Mount Sinai with the 2 stone tablets with the 10 commandments written on them.
When you were washed with the water, it started from the top down.
Think about this.The Kingdom of heaven came down to the earth and God dwells with men.The Word became flesh and dwelt among men.I'm talking about the heart of flesh.
I'm not saying that a literal kingdom won't come down from heaven.I don't know if one will,but I suspect the Kingdom of God will be within, and the spirit of the Lord will be revealed like nothing man has ever seen before on the new earth.

 

[Aaron56]

Hearing and then seeing is a theme in Revelation.

Earlier in the same book, John records this passage:

“Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”
But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

While John is weeping, the elder says to him "See, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah..."
John hears "Look, the Lion!" One would expect to see some type of a lion.

But then John turns to look and he sees this:

"Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain..."

Hears "Look a lion!" -> Sees a lamb that looked like it had been slain.
Now, we know that the lion and the lamb refer to neither animal but to a specific person: Christ Jesus.

This pattern is also relevant to the passage in Revelation 7.

John hears the number of those who were sealed;

Revelation 7 "Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel."

And then the number from each tribe is enumerated:

"From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad... etc."

Notice, this was to be a list from "all the tribes of Israel" yet it is not: Dan is missing and Mannasseh, one of Joseph's sons, is added.
So, just from the text (and excluding any religious gymnastics) we should know that this is NOT a list of the physical tribes of Israel.

This is something else.

But let's continue...

So John hears "144,000 from the tribes of Israel!" (a specific number and specific types of people) and then he looks and sees...

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb."

...he sees a great multitude no one could count.

I could write nearly a page for every sentence above but let me conclude this:

Revelation 7 requires wisdom to understand, like the rest of the book. This is not a count of 144,000 Israelites. It is something else.

 

[Wansvic]

Hearing and then seeing is a theme in Revelation.

Earlier in the same book, John records this passage:

“Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”
But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

While John is weeping, the elder says to him "See, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah..."
John hears "Look, the Lion!" One would expect to see some type of a lion.

But then John turns to look and he sees this:

"Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain..."

Hears "Look a lion!" -> Sees a lamb that looked like it had been slain.
Now, we know that the lion and the lamb refer to neither animal but to a specific person: Christ Jesus.

This pattern is also relevant to the passage in Revelation 7.

John hears the number of those who were sealed;

Revelation 7 "Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel."

And then the number from each tribe is enumerated:

"From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad... etc."

Notice, this was to be a list from "all the tribes of Israel" yet it is not: Dan is missing and Mannasseh, one of Joseph's sons, is added.
So, just from the text (and excluding any religious gymnastics) we should know that this is NOT a list of the physical tribes of Israel.

This is something else.

But let's continue...

So John hears "144,000 from the tribes of Israel!" (a specific number and specific types of people) and then he looks and sees...

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb."

...he sees a great multitude no one could count.

I could write nearly a page for every sentence above but let me conclude this:

Revelation 7 requires wisdom to understand, like the rest of the book. This is not a count of 144,000 Israelites. It is something else.

The tribe of Dan is not listed in the 12 tribes in Revelation 7; it is replaced by the tribe of Joseph (or Manasseh, one of Joseph's sons). The omission is a deliberate one, with scholars suggesting it's a punishment for the tribe's historical idolatry and lack of faith, which are detailed in the Old Testament books of Judges.

Why Dan is not listed

• Idolatry: The tribe of Dan is noted for its early and persistent idol worship, a practice God condemned.
• Judges 17-18: The Book of Judges provides a detailed account of the tribe's actions, including the establishment of a pagan shrine and idol, which led to its exclusion from the list.
• Omission as punishment: Some biblical scholars interpret the omission as a deliberate judgment on the tribe for its actions, noting the tribe of Joseph is listed instead.

 

[FlyingDove]

In Rev 7, the 144,000 are sealed in the forehead on earth. In Rev 14 the 144,000 are sealed with the name of the Father, and they are now standing with the Lamb of God on Mt Sion.

Therefore, the 144,000 are resurrected and ascended with the Lamb Jesus Christ. This must be the first resurrection of the blessed and holy saints of God. There are only two resurrections from the dead (Other than that of the man Jesus Christ), where the first resurrection is all saints, and the next resurrection of the rest of the dead, includes both the good and the bad, whose names are written and not written in the Lamb's book of life.

In Rev 7, the angels holding the winds still over the earth, are them that seal the servants of God in their foreheads. This is collectively altogether at once, just as the resurrection and immortal changing of the saints on earth, is collectively in a moment and twinkling of the eye.

The angels are standing at the four corners of the earth holding the four winds, which is also from where the resurrected saints will be gathered to meet and stand with Jesus in the air.

Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And so, we have the first resurrection, rapture, and congregation with the Lord at His return to earth.

Rev 7:
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda, Reuben & Gad .

6 Of the tribe of Aser, Nepthalim & Manassas

7 Of the tribe of Simeon, Levi & Issachar

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon, Joseph & Benjamin

The Tribe of Dan isn't mentioned. Here's why:
The tribe of Dan was the 1st tribe of Israel to plunge into pagan IDOLATRY! Danites failed to drive out their Philistine & Canaanite neighbors. As a result, they migrated to another land in the northernmost limits of Canaan.

It's true other Tribes fell into idolatry, but, only the Tribe of Dan picked-up & left the promised land.

Gen 48:21 Joseph receives a double land portion. Joseph's two sons, Manasseh & Ephraim (often called the "two half-tribes of Joseph") together they formed the House of Joseph. So, when you read Manasseh (Rev 7:6) it includes Ephraim.

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: 144k of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
(PARSING: From ALL the TRIBES of ISRAEL. Vrs 7:5-8 confirm 12,000 x 12 tribes - 144,000)

Gen 32:28 God changed Jacob's name to Israel. The 12 tribes of Israel are Jacob's sons. Each son received a land portion (except Levi they become the priesthood) Joseph receives a double portion of land (Gen 48:2) And divides it between his 2 sons Ephraim & Manasseh.

Rev 14:
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him a 144k, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
(PARSING: These 144k were redeemed from the earth)

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
(PARSING: "Redeemed From Among Men" being the firstfruits unto God & to the Lamb)

Parsing vs 4
(A) 144k which were not defiled with women = ALL VIRGINS)
(B) These 144k were redeemed from among men)
(C) Being firstfruits (plural) onto God & to the Lamb. These were the 1st to die on Christ's behalf & after Christ the 1st to be resurrected)

Matt 2:
16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were """in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts""" thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
(PARSING: Herod doesn't kill the male children under 2 in Bethlehem only. He has every 2 yr male & under killed in ALL THE COASTS THEREOF.

17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,
(PARSING: Herod's treacherous actions fulfill an OT prophecy - Jer 31:15-17)

Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
(PARSING: The 144k were all virgins without fault & in their mouth was found NO GUILE. Remember killed at 2 years old or younger)

1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
(MY NOTE: Christ is resurrected 1st)

Matt 27:50 Jesus dies, Vs 51 the Temple is ripped in two, Vs 52 Graves are opened, Vs 53 After Jesus resurrection MANY CAME OUT OF THE GRAVE!

I believe the 1st that were killed become, not only a 1st fruits wave offering unto the Father. But, the 1st friut's of the many to resurrect after Jesus.

 

[Howdy]

When God was showing me the things that were to take place,He came to visit me the night before the testimony of Two Witnesses, and blew his breath on me,and I was transformed.Then he left saying he had others to see.
That's what will happen to the 144,000 who are placed all over the earth.They will be in Spiritual Israel,which is the true Israel.

Seems you do not accept the inspired word of God to be true.
Time for everyone to ignore your post.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Seems you do not accept the inspired word of God to be true.
Time for everyone to ignore your post.

That's your free choice.I believe what God has shown me and the 144,000 weren't in the state of Israel but in spiritual Israel.
You don't have to believe it.His spirit will draw in those who he calls on to hear the testimony of the Two Witnesses.There will even be people who will turn away even though God drew them in.
I believe the testimony of the Two Witnesses is the truth.Who are the Word of God.

 

[Howdy]

That's your free choice.I believe what God has shown me and the 144,000 weren't in the state of Israel but in spiritual Israel.
You don't have to believe it.His spirit will draw in those who he calls on to hear the testimony of the Two Witnesses.There will even be people who will turn away even though God drew them in.
I believe the testimony of the Two Witnesses is the truth.Who are the Word of God.

1 John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
Your teaching this false teaching makes you a false prophet because you are teaching your revelation is superior to the word of God.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

1 John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
Your teaching this false teaching makes you a false prophet because you are teaching your revelation is superior to the word of God.

The pharisees thought the same thing of Jesus.I'll trust the spirit of the Lord.

 

[Psalm1]

In Rev 7, the 144,000 are sealed in the forehead on earth. In Rev 14 the 144,000 are sealed with the name of the Father, and they are now standing with the Lamb of God on Mt Sion.

Therefore, the 144,000 are resurrected and ascended with the Lamb Jesus Christ. This must be the first resurrection of the blessed and holy saints of God. There are only two resurrections from the dead (Other than that of the man Jesus Christ), where the first resurrection is all saints, and the next resurrection of the rest of the dead, includes both the good and the bad, whose names are written and not written in the Lamb's book of life.

In Rev 7, the angels holding the winds still over the earth, are them that seal the servants of God in their foreheads. This is collectively altogether at once, just as the resurrection and immortal changing of the saints on earth, is collectively in a moment and twinkling of the eye.

The angels are standing at the four corners of the earth holding the four winds, which is also from where the resurrected saints will be gathered to meet and stand with Jesus in the air.

Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And so, we have the first resurrection, rapture, and congregation with the Lord at His return to earth.

...and yet we can see with the removal of components by your theory, truth eludes you.

Passst...it will EVERY TIME.

In order to "arrive" you need to "Start" correctly.

Put all the components on the table, and restart.

 

[Psalm1]

Rev 7:
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda, Reuben & Gad .

6 Of the tribe of Aser, Nepthalim & Manassas

7 Of the tribe of Simeon, Levi & Issachar

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon, Joseph & Benjamin

The Tribe of Dan isn't mentioned. Here's why:
The tribe of Dan was the 1st tribe of Israel to plunge into pagan IDOLATRY! Danites failed to drive out their Philistine & Canaanite neighbors. As a result, they migrated to another land in the northernmost limits of Canaan.

It's true other Tribes fell into idolatry, but, only the Tribe of Dan picked-up & left the promised land.

Gen 48:21 Joseph receives a double land portion. Joseph's two sons, Manasseh & Ephraim (often called the "two half-tribes of Joseph") together they formed the House of Joseph. So, when you read Manasseh (Rev 7:6) it includes Ephraim.

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: 144k of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
(PARSING: From ALL the TRIBES of ISRAEL. Vrs 7:5-8 confirm 12,000 x 12 tribes - 144,000)

Gen 32:28 God changed Jacob's name to Israel. The 12 tribes of Israel are Jacob's sons. Each son received a land portion (except Levi they become the priesthood) Joseph receives a double portion of land (Gen 48:2) And divides it between his 2 sons Ephraim & Manasseh.

Rev 14:
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him a 144k, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
(PARSING: These 144k were redeemed from the earth)

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
(PARSING: "Redeemed From Among Men" being the firstfruits unto God & to the Lamb)

Parsing vs 4
(A) 144k which were not defiled with women = ALL VIRGINS)
(B) These 144k were redeemed from among men)
(C) Being firstfruits (plural) onto God & to the Lamb. These were the 1st to die on Christ's behalf & after Christ the 1st to be resurrected)

Matt 2:
16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were """in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts""" thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
(PARSING: Herod doesn't kill the male children under 2 in Bethlehem only. He has every 2 yr male & under killed in ALL THE COASTS THEREOF.

17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,
(PARSING: Herod's treacherous actions fulfill an OT prophecy - Jer 31:15-17)

Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
(PARSING: The 144k were all virgins without fault & in their mouth was found NO GUILE. Remember killed at 2 years old or younger)

1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
(MY NOTE: Christ is resurrected 1st)

Matt 27:50 Jesus dies, Vs 51 the Temple is ripped in two, Vs 52 Graves are opened, Vs 53 After Jesus resurrection MANY CAME OUT OF THE GRAVE!

I believe the 1st that were killed become, not only a 1st fruits wave offering unto the Father. But, the 1st friut's of the many to resurrect after Jesus.

Nope...way off.
That theory of herods slaughter was debunked a long time ago.
JESUS is the firstfruits of the church.

The 144k are firstfruit JEWS.

 

[FlyingDove]

Nope...way off.
That theory of herods slaughter was debunked a long time ago.
JESUS is the firstfruits of the church.

The 144k are firstfruit JEWS.

1st, My post clearly stated this:
"""1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."""
(MY NOTE: Christ is resurrected 1st)

Next, I posted my position to the OP's claim in Post 1 & 2 that say's QUOTE:
"""3. The 144,000 cannot be only the natural children of Israel, since all the names of the tribes engraved on the high priest's ephod, are not written in Rev 7. Dan is not included, so that the Scripture is broken between the Old and New Testament names."""

You disagree (debunk) my position & that's fine with me. I disagree with your position that the 144k are all Jews.

Rev 4 clearly says 12 Tribes & 12 thousand from each.

1st scripture mention of the Hebrew word (Yehudi) = JEW: 2 Kings 16:6, 2nd mention 2 Kings 25:25 BC 586.

Judah is 1 of Jacob's 12 sons (Gen 29:35). His descendants form the tribe of Judah & later become the kingdom of Judah.

Where does the/a Jew come from? > Jacob's son Judah. Jesus/a Jew born in Bethlehem/Judah is called the Lion from the tribe of Judah

Rev 14:3-5 Being redeemed from the earth, among men, all virgins, no guile in them (pure, truthful, without deceit) & and firstfruits unto God.

Finally:
I'm hard pressed in thinking/finding (Rev 14:3-5) 144k men (living past 2 yrs old) that are virgins, redeemed from among men & in their mouth was found no guile/pure/truthful/without fault.

So, who are these 144k Jews you are referencing?

 

[Psalm1]

1st, My post clearly stated this:
"""1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."""
(MY NOTE: Christ is resurrected 1st)

Next, I posted my position to the OP's claim in Post 1 & 2 that say's QUOTE:
"""3. The 144,000 cannot be only the natural children of Israel, since all the names of the tribes engraved on the high priest's ephod, are not written in Rev 7. Dan is not included, so that the Scripture is broken between the Old and New Testament names."""

You disagree (debunk) my position & that's fine with me. I disagree with your position that the 144k are all Jews.

Rev 4 clearly says 12 Tribes & 12 thousand from each.

1st scripture mention of the Hebrew word (Yehudi) = JEW: 2 Kings 16:6, 2nd mention 2 Kings 25:25 BC 586.

Judah is 1 of Jacob's 12 sons (Gen 29:35). His descendants form the tribe of Judah & later become the kingdom of Judah.

Where does the/a Jew come from? > Jacob's son Judah. Jesus/a Jew born in Bethlehem/Judah is called the Lion from the tribe of Judah

Rev 14:3-5 Being redeemed from the earth, among men, all virgins, no guile in them (pure, truthful, without deceit) & and firstfruits unto God.

Finally:
I'm hard pressed in thinking/finding (Rev 14:3-5) 144k men (living past 2 yrs old) that are virgins, redeemed from among men & in their mouth was found no guile/pure/truthful/without fault.

So, who are these 144k Jews you are referencing?

That is like saying half of christianity cannot possibly be virgins.

Mat 25
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.


If you try to compromise what is written to "make sense to the natural mind", then a lot of the bible will need modifications.

 

[FlyingDove]

That is like saying half of christianity cannot possibly be virgins.

Mat 25
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.


If you try to compromise what is written to "make sense to the natural mind", then a lot of the bible will need modifications.

I have no idea how your reply has anything to do with the topic being discussed.

Who are these 144k Jews you are referencing?