Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Blue155]

@OLDBUTNEW, did you see my article I posted in this thread?

 

[Magenta]

Yep. You did not get what I said. Read 2 Corinthians 7:1. You have to look at the whole counsel of God’s Word and not isolate verses in a vacuum. Yes, passages like in Ezekiel about the New Covenant are true. Ezekiel 36:27 says, “And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

But like I said, do you believe this is happening automatically for all believers who are Elect? Is this happening in your own life? Is it happening in the lives of other Calvinists? How about other Christians in general? Have you ever heard of believers going into mental blackouts and suddenly obeying God without knowing what they were doing, or perfectly doing everything the Lord commands without ever resisting?

In other words, the verse is true, but it must be read in balance with other verses. Scripture interprets Scripture. I believe a Christian can allow God’s Spirit to cause him to walk in His statutes and to keep His judgments, but that is conditioned upon following the very requirements God has given to the believer. God enables, but we must yield. The promise is real, but it is not fulfilled apart from the believer responding to God’s Word.

It is God Who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose. Apart from Me you can do nothing. No word from God will ever fail. “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

 

[Blue155]

@cv5 if God eternally decreed all events per true Calvinism, then how was it that the children of Israel and Judah did abominations which God did not command, nor come into His mind (Jer. 32:35)?

 

[rogerg]

Yep. You did not get what I said. Read 2 Corinthians 7:1. You have to look at the whole counsel of God’s Word and not isolate verses in a vacuum. Yes, passages like in Ezekiel about the New Covenant are true. Ezekiel 36:27 says, “And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

But like I said, do you believe this is happening automatically for all believers who are Elect? Is this happening in your own life? Is it happening in the lives of other Calvinists? How about other Christians in general? Have you ever heard of believers going into mental blackouts and suddenly obeying God without knowing what they were doing, or perfectly doing everything the Lord commands without ever resisting?

In other words, the verse is true, but it must be read in balance with other verses. Scripture interprets Scripture. I believe a Christian can allow God’s Spirit to cause him to walk in His statutes and to keep His judgments, but that is conditioned upon following the very requirements God has given to the believer. God enables, but we must yield. The promise is real, but it is not fulfilled apart from the believer responding to God’s Word.


....

I read it in balance with other verses.
Only the elect become true believers.
And you did not get what I said. God changes the heart and mind of those He saves, and the Spirit makes them into new people. They will manifest Christian attributes as they become edified and learn over time, but no one does so either immediately or perfectly. In any event, they have already been saved by God's grace alone so their salvation is not at stake nor dependent upon themselves, neither can any part of salvation be denied to them. As saved, their desire becomes conformance to that which they've received edification in because it gives them joy to do so, not because of the law's demands - they are not under law but under grace. The Spirit indwells and moves within them to do God's will, but that comes only from salvation, not before. The unsaved on the other hand, try to justify themselves before God by the keeping of law which cannot succeed but only brings God's wrath upon them; that is, if the heart has not first been changed by God, nothing else matters.

[Jhn 13:15-17 KJV]
15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

 

[Jordon]

@cv5 if God eternally decreed all events per true Calvinism, then how was it that the children of Israel and Judah did abominations which God did not command, nor come into His mind (Jer. 32:35)?

there's a huge difference between determinism and for-knowing.

 

[Jordon]

I did not leave out Matthew 22:14, as I referenced in words. I simply forgot to reference it.

ok maybe you can remember next time,

Perhaps you can give us an interpretation of Mathew 22:14

 

[cv5]

@cv5 if God eternally decreed all events per true Calvinism, then how was it that the children of Israel and Judah did abominations which God did not command, nor come into His mind (Jer. 32:35)?

God decreeing evil is the most odious of all the Calvinists' folly.
So why is it that they enshrine it with the greatest glee?

 

[Jordon]

@Jordon : Thanks for this, bro; Good stuff!

The lord will have mercy, full stop m

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

@OLDBUTNEW, did you see my article I posted in this thread?

@Blue155 : Hi, Bro; No, I didn't, I'm sorry.

 

[Jordon]

@Blue155 : Hi, Bro; No, I didn't, I'm sorry.

hey you know hes only going to take great satisfaction in showing it again.

He thinks hes created a master piece now, because cv5 has approved it as flawless.

The trouble is tho his entire word of God is about God is what somebody else thinks.

Sadly its the way with many here bro

 

[Blue155]

God decreeing evil is the most odious of all the Calvinists' folly.
So why is it that they enshrine it with the greatest glee?

Great question. It appears some of the less faithful Calvinists to Calvinism will not follow their belief to its logical conclusion. Calvinists might not use the phraseology “born with God-hating nature”, but the concept is warranted in their doctrine, as it requires it due to believing in total inability/depravity. I’d have to ask if God eternally decreed us to allegedly have a “God-hating nature” from birth, per Calvinism? And if He did, then is He pleased with His own eternal decree..yet all while simultaneously having eternally elected those same ones who are born with a “God-hating nature” as being the elect. Makes no sense. Having a “God-hating sinner” simultaneously being the elect (saved). That’s like saying you are damned and saved at the same time in the same sense. Or it’s like saying you are dead and alive at the same time in the same sense. That is the law of non-contradiction, which Calvinism is filled with. The elect are “saved from eternity,” yet the elect are “damned by nature” until regenerated. This is what Calvinism logically results in, even though Calvinists avoid saying it directly.

 

[JesusLives]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

God created us to have free will as He wants us to choose Him and love Him. God only wants what is best for us and left us the choice to follow Him or to not follow and choose Him.

 

[Blue155]

@Blue155 : Hi, Bro; No, I didn't, I'm sorry.

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5622261

 

[Jordon]

Great question. It appears some of the less faithful Calvinists to Calvinism will not follow their belief to its logical conclusion. Calvinists might not use the phraseology “born with God-hating nature”, but the concept is warranted in their doctrine, as it requires it due to believing in total inability/depravity. I’d have to ask if God eternally decreed us to allegedly have a “God-hating nature” from birth, per Calvinism? And if He did, then is He pleased with His own eternal decree..yet all while simultaneously having eternally elected those same ones who are born with a “God-hating nature” as being the elect. Makes no sense. Having a “God-hating sinner” simultaneously being the elect (saved). That’s like saying you are damned and saved at the same time in the same sense. Or it’s like saying you are dead and alive at the same time in the same sense. That is the law of non-contradiction, which Calvinism is filled with. The elect are “saved from eternity,” yet the elect are “damned by nature” until regenerated. This is what Calvinism logically results in, even though Calvinists avoid saying it directly.

That's sound like a narcissist to me and not what is taught by people who care about God.

All the people your aiming this at here, have been patient with you.

But anyhow you still haven't answered why the true Calvin taught people to be obedient to the father.

 

[Blue155]

ok maybe you can remember next time,

Perhaps you can give us an interpretation of Mathew 22:14

I’m pretty sure I did in the article, Jordon. Perhaps you should read it again.

 

[Blue155]

That's sound like a narcissist to me and not what is taught by people who care about God.

All the people your aiming this at here, have been patient with you.

But anyhow you still haven't answered why the true Calvin taught people to be obedient to the father.

You kill me lol

 

[Blue155]

hey you know hes only going to take great satisfaction in showing it again.

He thinks hes created a master piece now, because cv5 has approved it as flawless.

The trouble is tho his entire word of God is about God is what somebody else thinks.

Sadly its the way with many here bro

the only “good” thing about Calvinism is it led me to writing a “flawless” article all while being “totally depraved”, nonetheless!

 

[Jordon]

God created us to have free will as He wants us to choose Him and love Him. God only wants what is best for us and left us the choice to follow Him or to not follow and choose Him.

Yep he did create you to have a choice,

Jesus does live for the living,

His word is alive and active.

He wishes all would be saved and come to him.

Neither will he give you up.

 

[Jordon]

the only “good” thing about Calvinism is it led me to writing a “flawless” article all while being “totally depraved”, nonetheless!

the only good thing about being totally depraved is God is Good in the heart that needs saving

 

[Jordon]

the only “good” thing about Calvinism is it led me to writing a “flawless” article all while being “totally depraved”, nonetheless!

well I did tell you there next year's Passover.

Living in hope untill then would be good

But who's hope would be better