Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

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Cameron143 said:
The material doesn't impact the immaterial
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
100% gnostic view here
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"But as to themselves [the Valentinian gnostics], they hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions in which they may be involved."​
 
LightBearer316 said:
Your reply clearly tries to blur your precise exegetical distinction by reframing it as a “systematic theology opinion,” when in fact I supported it with Greek lexical evidence and direct Pauline syntax.

You keep calling this “systematic theology,” but I literally cited the Greek terms Paul used — that’s textual exegesis, not theology-by-system.
πίστις (pistis, faith) ≠ ὑπακοή (hypakoē, obedience).Paul never treats them as synonyms. Faith is the root; obedience is the fruit that flows from it.Romans 1:5 and 16:26 both use ὑπακοὴ πίστεως (“obedience of faith”), not “obedience as faith.”
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We've discussed this.

Citing is not exegesis.

Repetition is not proof.

Strawman in use once again and is poor argument.

Rom1:5 and Rom16:26 do not say root and fruit. We've discussed a few of the potential genitive classifications beyond the one you're choosing.

I've already addressed the rest of your post and the fallacies in use.
 
Cameron143 said:
I wasn't referring to that so no worries. I was responding directly to inward change as a consequence of outward behavior. It's the cart before the horse. No physical behavior has ever brought inward change. The material doesn't impact the immaterial. It works the other way around. Putting on physical clothing doesn't change the heart of an individual, but changing the heart of an individual may well lead to his putting on different clothing.
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The reason our outward material actions affect our inward spiritual state is because the holy spirit witnesses in our heart that God is pleased with righteous conduct. And so we gain faith and confidence as we behave like Christ and learn inwardly who he really is.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
"But as to themselves [the Valentinian gnostics], they hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions in which they may be involved."​
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I don't believe I'm saved by my spiritual nature. I'm saved by grace through faith.

Just because you don't understand spirituality doesn't mean you have to misrepresent people. Perhaps @studier can explain it to you.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The reason our outward material actions affect our inward spiritual state is because the holy spirit witnesses in our heart that God is pleased with righteous conduct. And so we gain faith and confidence as we behave like Christ and learn inwardly who he really is.
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The Holy Spirit witnessing within is not the flesh. It's God working in an individual. You sure you aren't gnostic?
 
Cameron143 said:
I don't believe I'm saved by my spiritual nature. I'm saved by grace through faith.

Just because you don't understand spirituality doesn't mean you have to misrepresent people. Perhaps @studier can explain it to you.
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The point of my post was to show how you saying the material doesn't affect the immaterial aligns with gnostic belief. What we do outwardly most definitely affects us inwardly, both good and bad.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Justification doesn't depend on the resurrection at all. It is based on Christ's death. Salvation is based on justification and the resurrection.
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That reply from ChristRoseFromTheDead (“Justification doesn’t depend on the resurrection at all…”) is a major theological misstep, because Scripture explicitly says otherwise. Another example why all on the forum should ignore him. In fact, his statement flatly contradicts Romans 4:25 KJV — “Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

If justification doesn’t depend on the resurrection, then Paul’s words mean nothing. The resurrection isn’t optional to justification; it’s the divine seal that the debt was paid and righteousness imputed.

Without the resurrection:
  • the cross remains an unverified payment,
  • justification remains an unissued verdict, and
  • believers remain “in their sins” (1 Cor 15:17 KJV).
Christ’s death accomplished atonement; His resurrection applied and confirmed it before the Father. To deny that connection is to separate what the gospel unites.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
 
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