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Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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I have been answering you and @GENESES approach to deny the flesh is also the soul.
Even you've just admitted as much
As John 1 states the will of man lives in the flesh.
Gods word declares also declares. He will give you a new heart of flesh, which will have his will living in it. To stop your will doing what it wants
But Go ahead sawdust show his word more ignorance and me whilst your at it.
By the way your friend @Genez is possessed
"So faith from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ"
I believe Zacchaeus is an example of the lost sheep/future Christians who come by faith aka a son of Abraham through coming in the same manner. I believe the truth here lies with what is actually given
"So faith from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ"
Zacchaeus obviously had 'heard' of the Lord and now was seeking the Him. God obviously had the word put forth that he heard and that 'draws us' in the first place. It's a chicken or egg question where obviously, the Chicken comes first as there is no egg without a chicken to lay it.
Has there ever been any Christians found where 'the Word' has never been uttered? I'm willing to bet 'no'. Why go and preach to all the world if in fact, God draws us in, in some other way?
"So faith from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ"
God 'draws us' through His words, we choose to employ or ignore them up, at least up until we either fall asleep or die... having either been captured by them or taken away from them by the ways of this world.
Free will
1 Samuel 8
4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, 5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. 7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee. 9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
Luke 16 13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Are there those who didn't have free will? Scripture tells us YES, not everyone has or has had it.
Jeremiah
4 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
6 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.
7 But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.
8 Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD.
9 Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.
10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree. 12Then said the LORD unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.
Jonah 1
10 Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him, Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them.
I believe we should stop trying to divide the words of God into either 'this way or that way'... when there are variations on both of them, resulting in none of us ever being completely right or wrong. Yet I love how it keeps us discussing it,...ever growing, ever maturing, walking more holy every and every day, seeking to be the best 'image' of Christ we can be, PRAYING always what we have received is HIS TRUTH and not our own, so that we can be a servant He can count on to do His will, especially when the enemy comes. Not to mention how it divides those who 'choose' to do it GODS WAY from those who choose to do it in their own...aka from the born from above spirit or the flesh and blood one..
I believe Zacchaeus is an example of the lost sheep/future Christians who come by faith aka a son of Abraham through coming in the same manner. I believe the truth here lies with what is actually given
"So faith from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ"
Zacchaeus obviously had 'heard' of the Lord and now was seeking the Him. God obviously had the word put forth that he heard and that 'draws us' in the first place. It's a chicken or egg question where obviously, the Chicken comes first as there is no egg without a chicken to lay it.
Has there ever been any Christians found where 'the Word' has never been uttered? I'm willing to bet 'no'. Why go and preach to all the world if in fact, God draws us in, in some other way?
"So faith from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ"
God 'draws us' through His words, we choose to employ or ignore them up, at least up until we either fall asleep or die... having either been captured by them or taken away from them by the ways of this world.
Free will
1 Samuel 8
4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, 5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. 7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee. 9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
Luke 16 13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Are there those who didn't have free will? Scripture tells us YES, not everyone has or has had it.
Jeremiah
4 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
6 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.
7 But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.
8 Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD.
9 Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.
10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree. 12Then said the LORD unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.
Jonah 1
10 Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him, Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them.
I believe we should stop trying to divide the words of God into either 'this way or that way'... when there are variations on both of them, resulting in none of us ever being completely right or wrong. Yet I love how it keeps us discussing it,...ever growing, ever maturing, walking more holy every and every day, seeking to be the best 'image' of Christ we can be, PRAYING always what we have received is HIS TRUTH and not our own, so that we can be a servant He can count on to do His will, especially when the enemy comes. Not to mention how it divides those who 'choose' to do it GODS WAY from those who choose to do it in their own...aka from the born from above spirit or the flesh and blood one..
Jordon ... late response ... been super busy these days !!!
reneweddaybyday said:
in the bee analogy the bee takes pollen from one flower and implants it in another flower. that is not how God imparts His Word.
God has believers who are faithful to Him and who are filled by Him. God sends His faithful believers to speak the truth of His Word ... His Word is a living Word and, if believed, the one who believes receives the promise. For those who do not believe, there is a consequence ... and I'm not just speaking of the gospel by which one is born again. All of God's Word is profitable for those who believe.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
in cross pollination, the bee goes from flower to flower, leaves pollen from one flower and gathers pollen from another flower.
let's say you are the bee going about to pollinate ...
Those void and empty would not have any pollen for you to take to another.
you do not receive from another person to give to those in need of God's Word ... as in cross pollination.
you receive from God to give to those void and empty of God's Word ... which is not self pollination nor is it cross pollination.
.
reneweddaybyday said:
in the bee analogy the bee takes pollen from one flower and implants it in another flower. that is not how God imparts His Word.
God has believers who are faithful to Him and who are filled by Him. God sends His faithful believers to speak the truth of His Word ... His Word is a living Word and, if believed, the one who believes receives the promise. For those who do not believe, there is a consequence ... and I'm not just speaking of the gospel by which one is born again. All of God's Word is profitable for those who believe.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
well, if we take the bee analogy ... you had stated:Gods will is always seen in nature m.
And just like the bees his will says to bee or not to bee m
But what about the bee looking for pollen . In a place where the stigma is highly stigmatising void and empty of Gods word. A place where the seed is not producing any good nectar m.
in cross pollination, the bee goes from flower to flower, leaves pollen from one flower and gathers pollen from another flower.
let's say you are the bee going about to pollinate ...
Those void and empty would not have any pollen for you to take to another.
you do not receive from another person to give to those in need of God's Word ... as in cross pollination.
you receive from God to give to those void and empty of God's Word ... which is not self pollination nor is it cross pollination.
.
there is a will of the flesh which leads to the flesh lusting after something.so you don't recognise the lust of the flesh as the will of the flesh then m
let's say you're hungry ... that is the flesh telling you of its need. nothing wrong with that. you eat.
however, in the lust of the flesh ... you may eat to gluttony.
.
I believe it is the same. I love the imagery in Rev 22:1-5 ... the pure river of water of life, clear as crystal ... the throne of God and of the Lamb ... the tree of life yielding fruits ... the leaves for the healing of nations ... no more curse ... servants serving and seeing His face ... His name in our foreheads ... no more night ... the Lord God giving light ... forever and ever ...well mam more rainbows for you
This was the very verse I was thinking of when I asked you.
Do you think this tree of life is different to the tree of life in the garden
Revelation 22:1-5 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
.
Demons also love controling his word as it says they will cite scripture for there cause ,
My guess is the demon is calling good evil and evil good,
The demon is calling Gods word not controlling, because controlling is a good idea to make God look bad if hes controling.
It's called denial
as demons don't want to be controlled by his word they want to control his word.
well at least we agree in something then mI believe it is the same. I love the imagery in Rev 22:1-5 ... the pure river of water of life, clear as crystal ... the throne of God and of the Lamb ... the tree of life yielding fruits ... the leaves for the healing of nations ... no more curse ... servants serving and seeing His face ... His name in our foreheads ... no more night ... the Lord God giving light ... forever and ever ...
Revelation 22:1-5 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
.
Just looking back at our discussion, was Jesus in the garden then , ?
In the body. I have said that often. Rom.7:23
Yikes! You have no idea how things work.
If the treasure in your heart is money, what deceived you into thinking it was for the best? Could it have been the sin nature playing upon your bodily needs, the need to eat, for physical comfort and shelter etc and then in turn your body's needs getting you to think "if i only had enough money ..." but the truth is what? "My God shall supply all your needs". Without that truth held in the heart, a man is deceived into thinking something else, anything else to supply his needs. That in turn is what leads him to sin.
What you describe above is the outworking of a process that begun with the sin nature. It is not your soul that holds you captive, it is your soul that is the prisoner, captive to the sin nature at work in your flesh.
Romans 7:24
O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
be careful with justifying racism m
You have to call it out for what it is.
Other wise there racist comments get worse
Our freewill is not without restraint any more than God's freewill is not without restraint. Doesn't make it any less free. Freedom without restraint is chaos not freedom.
in case you've not noticed I've been fighting racism in this thread without even calling it racism in over a thousand posts,
I think I'm smart enough to know what racism is.
The verse clearly teaches that the heart is directing the mouth. This is not possible if the flesh is overriding the soul. It would always be the flesh directing the soul.