Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[LightBearer316]

When “the portal” keeps adding steps—repentance + obedience + baptism + “accepting His word” as separate conditions—it stops being the gospel and starts being a checklist.

Scripture’s order is consistent: they believed/received the word, and then they were baptized (Acts 2:41 KJV; Acts 10:43–48 KJV). We’re saved by grace through faith—not of works (Eph. 2:8–9 KJV); God cleanses the heart by faith (Acts 15:9 KJV); and baptism follows as the public testimony (Rom. 6:3–4 KJV).

Let’s boast only in the cross (Gal. 6:14 KJV).

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

 

[NightTwister]

I don't argue with anyone, I let HIS word do the talking.

I didn't die for you.

Are you dismissing my statement.

Yes, consider yourself dismissed.

 

[studier]

The error here is category confusion — you are conflating faith’s nature with faith’s expression. You’re redefining faith rather than explaining it biblically.

Scripture never says obedience = faith; it says faith results in obedience (Romans 1:5 KJV; Hebrews 11KJV).
If they were equivalent, Paul couldn’t contrast them so plainly:

“To him that worketh not, but believeth…” (Romans 4:5 KJV).​

Faith precedes and produces obedience — that’s why Abraham was justified before offering Isaac (Romans 4:9–10 KJV; James 2:21–23 KJV). His obedience proved faith; it didn’t become it.

You can’t collapse all the fruits of faith back into the root itself without destroying grace.
Faith alone justifies because it unites us to Christ — and that union inevitably transforms the believer into one who obeys.
That’s the consistent order of Scripture: Faith --> Salvation --> Obedience, not Faith = Obedience.

Grace and peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

You continue to ignore most of post #443 and the clear texts showing obedience and genuine faith are Scripturally equivalent and inseparable; separating them is a category error imposed by your faith-alone theology, not taught by Scripture.

The Scriptural equation among others from other verses like Acts2:38 we've been working on would be: F

The error here is category confusion — you are conflating faith’s nature with faith’s expression. You’re redefining faith rather than explaining it biblically.

Scripture never says obedience = faith; it says faith results in obedience (Romans 1:5 KJV; Hebrews 11KJV).
If they were equivalent, Paul couldn’t contrast them so plainly:

“To him that worketh not, but believeth…” (Romans 4:5 KJV).​

Faith precedes and produces obedience — that’s why Abraham was justified before offering Isaac (Romans 4:9–10 KJV; James 2:21–23 KJV). His obedience proved faith; it didn’t become it.

You can’t collapse all the fruits of faith back into the root itself without destroying grace.
Faith alone justifies because it unites us to Christ — and that union inevitably transforms the believer into one who obeys.
That’s the consistent order of Scripture: Faith --> Salvation --> Obedience, not Faith = Obedience.

Grace and peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

The error here is category confusion — you are conflating faith’s nature with faith’s expression. You’re redefining faith rather than explaining it biblically.

Scripture never says obedience = faith; it says faith results in obedience (Romans 1:5 KJV; Hebrews 11KJV).
If they were equivalent, Paul couldn’t contrast them so plainly:

“To him that worketh not, but believeth…” (Romans 4:5 KJV).​

Faith precedes and produces obedience — that’s why Abraham was justified before offering Isaac (Romans 4:9–10 KJV; James 2:21–23 KJV). His obedience proved faith; it didn’t become it.

You can’t collapse all the fruits of faith back into the root itself without destroying grace.
Faith alone justifies because it unites us to Christ — and that union inevitably transforms the believer into one who obeys.
That’s the consistent order of Scripture: Faith --> Salvation --> Obedience, not Faith = Obedience.

Grace and peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

You continue to ignore most of post #443 and the clear texts showing obedience and genuine faith are Scripturally equivalent and inseparable; separating them is the category error imposed by your faith-alone theology system, not taught by Scripture.

The Scriptural equation among others from other verses like Acts2:38 we've been working on would be: Faith <-> Obedience -> Salvation or even Faith/Obedience -> Salvation or even Faith = Obedience -> Salvation with the "=" representing Scriptural equivalence and inseparability.

What you've been ignoring in post #443 shows this. I'm sure the real Bereans understood this very basic, foundational truth.

 

[studier]

View attachment 281577

That’s a textbook case of assertion without demonstration because you are making theological claims (“faith equals obedience”) but offering no textual proof, just reasoning that sounds logical to you. That’s the issue right there — you’re asserting equivalence without providing a single verse where Scripture defines faith as obedience.

When the Bible speaks of faith, it always distinguishes it from works:

“To him that worketh not, but believeth…” (Romans 4:5 KJV).​

“By grace are ye saved through faith… not of works.” (Ephesians 2:8–9 KJV).​

Faith produces obedience, but the two are not identical.
Otherwise Paul’s entire contrast between justification by faith and works collapses.

If you’re going to claim the Bible equates them, show where the text actually does — not just logic or paraphrase.

Grace and peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

You continue to ignore post #443 and the texts that assert and demonstrate obedience = genuine faith (Rom 1:5; 16:26; Rom10:16; Heb3:18–19; Heb5:9 (cf. Scriptures re: believe in Jesus for Salvation); 2Thes1:8; 1Pet4:17; 1John3:23). Rom4:5 and Eph2:8–9 contrast faith with meritorious works, not with the obedience that is intrinsic to pistis. Your faith-alone theology creates a category error by artificially separating pistis from obedience and then reassigning that obedience as later “fruit,” ignoring the textual equivalence (“=”) the Scripture itself teaches.

 

[studier]

IMO this juxtaposition of in and into encapsulate being reconciled though belief in his death and being saved by believing into his life.

That and more probably (when it's all charted) - the transition into and the life within (saved by His life as Paul says) - in Him we are identified with Him - in union with Him.

 

[studier]

What you posted is really just wordplay dressed up as insight. It sounds deep (“in and into”), but there’s no textual basis or exegetical support behind it. The Bible doesn’t build any doctrine on a supposed contrast between believing in and believing into.

Grace and Peace

Projection and error - repeatedly.

 

[lrs68]

I'm a bit late to this party. However, I wonder how you can say that God is not a person. Are you a person? You are made in God's image. God has all the attributes of being a person. God is called Father. Are fathers not persons?

Our image and likeness pertaining to God is always spiritual in nature first.

 

[studier]

Agreed but faith alone regeneration theology most certainly is.


True faith walks around Jericho in order to receive the blessing and does not second guess the motive for the need for obedience.


Obedience to God is never optional regardless of grace.

I am willing to state my belief in baptismal regeneration theology, for it is the point and time of the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Are you willing to state your belief in faith alone regeneration theology as the same?

Nicely stated.

 

[studier]

View attachment 281588

Nice try. Several things to discuss. You shouldn't add definitions like you did for baptism.

I'm still awaiting real discussion on post #443.

 

[studier]

When “the portal” keeps adding steps—repentance + obedience + baptism + “accepting His word” as separate conditions—it stops being the gospel and starts being a checklist.

Scripture’s order is consistent: they believed/received the word, and then they were baptized (Acts 2:41 KJV; Acts 10:43–48 KJV). We’re saved by grace through faith—not of works (Eph. 2:8–9 KJV); God cleanses the heart by faith (Acts 15:9 KJV); and baptism follows as the public testimony (Rom. 6:3–4 KJV).

Let’s boast only in the cross (Gal. 6:14 KJV).

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

Reframing what's stated in the verse and context as a "checklist" is a ploy.

Ignoring and changing what the verse and context say is error.

Reframing Scriptural faith-obedience - submission to the cross - as a boast against the cross is more error.

As I've attempted to show you, garbage in garbage out.

 

[studier]

Sorry for the confusion on #843. The system was glitching and apparently double posted.

 

[Ouch]

This post shows you trying to retrofit a verse (Romans 5:10 KJV) to back up a claim that wasn’t in the text.

Romans 5:10 KJV doesn’t say anything about “moving through the water of death.”
Paul’s point is strictly positional and redemptive, not ritual.
We’re “reconciled to God through the death of His Son” — that’s the finished work of the cross, not something mediated through baptism or symbol.
The verse contrasts past reconciliation (through His death) with ongoing life in Him (through His resurrection).

Reading “water” into the passage adds an element that simply isn’t in Paul’s argument.
The text says reconciliation is accomplished by Christ’s death, and salvation is lived out through His risen life — not through any rite.

Grace and peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

Not sure why you think JESUS job was finished on the cross.

That was the worst moment of HIS life, that's when he received all of our sins.

You should consider what happen next, 3 days later.

For sure HE said, it is done.

As a human HIS job was done, but HIS job was not done.

Why do you call being baptized a ritual?

Is that somewhere in HIS word, of something you made up?

 

[LightBearer316]

Reframing what's stated in the verse and context as a "checklist" is a ploy.

Ignoring and changing what the verse and context say is error.

Reframing Scriptural faith-obedience - submission to the cross - as a boast against the cross is more error.

As I've attempted to show you, garbage in garbage out.

You’ve actually helped make my point.
If faith and obedience were identical, Scripture wouldn’t distinguish them. Paul said,

“To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” (Romans 4:5 KJV)​

Faith produces obedience as fruit — but it’s not the root. We obey because we’re saved, not in order to be saved.

That’s the consistent pattern throughout the New Testament (Acts 10:43-48 KJV; Eph 2:8-9 KJV; Titus 3:5 KJV).
When obedience becomes the definition of faith itself, the gospel shifts from grace to effort — and Paul called that “another gospel.” (Gal 1:6-9 KJV)

Grace and peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

 

[Ouch]

That reply from you (“It’s all Bible, why add Scripture when you don’t follow it anyway?”) is a classic dismissive jab — it dodges my argument by attacking my sincerity instead of addressing the Scriptures I cited. It’s an ad hominem and red herring rolled into one.

If we actually believe it’s “all Bible,” then we should be willing to let Scripture interpret Scripture — not dismiss it when it contradicts our position.

I’m quoting those verses precisely because they show what following Scripture looks like:

• Salvation is “by grace through faith” (Ephesians 2:8–9 KJV), not by ritual effort.
• Faith is “counted for righteousness” to the one who “worketh not” (Romans 4:5 KJV).

Following the Bible means letting it set the order: faith first, then obedience as its fruit.
Ignoring that order isn’t “following Scripture” — it’s rewriting it.

Grace and peace.

I guess you don't know, Paul is speaking to the church in Eph and Romans.

We are saved by grace, tell me WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO BE SAVED?

Show me what Paul says how to be saved.

 

[LightBearer316]

Not sure why you think JESUS job was finished on the cross.

That was the worst moment of HIS life, that's when he received all of our sins.

You should consider what happen next, 3 days later.

For sure HE said, it is done.

As a human HIS job was done, but HIS job was not done.

Why do you call being baptized a ritual?

Is that somewhere in HIS word, of something you made up?

What you’re posting completely misrepresents what Scripture actually teaches — it’s a distortion, not doctrine.

Jesus Himself said, “It is finished” (John 19:30 KJV) — not “It’s almost finished.”
On the cross, He completed the full payment for sin: “By one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” (Hebrews 10:14 KJV)

The resurrection wasn’t about completing atonement — it was the Father’s public declaration that the sacrifice was accepted. As Paul said, “He was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.” (Romans 4:25 KJV)
So yes, the cross finished redemption; the resurrection proved it.

As for baptism — Scripture itself calls it a “figure” (Greek antitypos) in 1 Peter 3:21 KJV, meaning a symbol or representation:

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God).”​

That’s not my wording — that’s Peter’s. Baptism is an act of obedience that points to what Christ already accomplished, not a means of completing it.

Grace and peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

 

[Ouch]

That’s another example of deflection disguised as piety. “I let His Word do the talking” sounds spiritual but is really a way to avoid accountability for interpretation. Everyone quotes Scripture — the issue is how it’s handled and whether it’s applied correctly.

Saying “I let His Word do the talking” is only meaningful if what’s being said actually reflects what His Word teaches.

Even the devil quoted Scripture (Matthew 4:6 KJV), but he twisted its meaning — which shows that merely quoting verses isn’t the same as rightly handling them. When Paul told Timothy to “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV), he wasn’t talking about tearing passages apart to fit a system — he meant handling the Word with accuracy, letting every verse harmonize with the rest of God’s revelation.

True study doesn’t pit one text against another; it seeks unity and consistency in what God has spoken.

No one’s dismissing your statement — we’re testing it by the Word itself. If our conclusions differ, the only fair way forward is to compare our handling of Scripture, not retreat behind slogans.

Grace and peace.

Tell me master, how does Acts 2:38 and 22:16 go with your harmonizing?

 

[Ouch]

Yes, consider yourself dismissed.

Dismissed I am.

 

[LightBearer316]

I guess you don't know, Paul is speaking to the church in Eph and Romans.

We are saved by grace, tell me WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO BE SAVED?

Show me what Paul says how to be saved.

Paul actually answers that question directly — and not the way you’re implying.
When the Philippian jailer asked, “What must I do to be saved?”, Paul’s reply wasn’t “be baptized” or “perform a ritual.”
He said plainly:

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” (Acts 16:31 KJV)​

That’s the same Paul who wrote,

“By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God — not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8–9 KJV)​

Faith is the root — obedience is the fruit.
Baptism, repentance, and good works follow because salvation has already occurred, not to cause it.
That’s the order God established.

Grace and peace.

 

[LightBearer316]

Tell me master, how does Acts 2:38 and 22:16 go with your harmonizing?

Acts 2:38 and 22:16 harmonize perfectly with salvation by grace through faith — they don’t contradict it.

In Acts 2:38, Peter isn’t teaching that baptism causes forgiveness, but that baptism follows repentance as the outward confession of faith. The Greek phrase “eis aphesin hamartiōn” (“for the remission of sins”) can mean because of or with reference to forgiveness — the same phrasing used in Matthew 12:41 KJV, where people repented “at [eis] the preaching of Jonah” (not in order to cause Jonah’s preaching).

And Acts 22:16 is equally clear when read in full context:

“Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”​

The phrase “calling on the name of the Lord” explains how the washing occurs — through faith, not water. Compare Romans 10:13: “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”​

Neither passage teaches that baptism produces forgiveness — they both describe the believer’s response of faith to what God has already done in Christ.

That’s how the apostles preached it, and that’s how Scripture harmonizes — faith first, works follow.

Grace and peace.

 

[Ouch]

What you’re posting completely misrepresents what Scripture actually teaches — it’s a distortion, not doctrine.

Jesus Himself said, “It is finished” (John 19:30 KJV) — not “It’s almost finished.”
On the cross, He completed the full payment for sin: “By one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” (Hebrews 10:14 KJV)

The resurrection wasn’t about completing atonement — it was the Father’s public declaration that the sacrifice was accepted. As Paul said, “He was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.” (Romans 4:25 KJV)
So yes, the cross finished redemption; the resurrection proved it.

As for baptism — Scripture itself calls it a “figure” (Greek antitypos) in 1 Peter 3:21 KJV, meaning a symbol or representation:

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God).”​

That’s not my wording — that’s Peter’s. Baptism is an act of obedience that points to what Christ already accomplished, not a means of completing it.

Grace and peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

Why do you put your one oppinoin of what HIS word says twisting it?

It does not say what you think it says.

Sure JESUS died on the cross for our sins.

Why do you say

"The resurrection wasn’t about completing atonement — it was the Father’s public declaration that the sacrifice was accepted"

"So yes, "the cross finished redemption; the resurrection proved it"


BACK UP YOUR STATEMENTS WITH HIS WORD.

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT? YOU TELL A STORY THEN SHOW SCRIPTURE AND THAT MAKE YOUR STORY TRUE????

As for baptism — Scripture itself calls it a “figure” (Greek antitypos) in 1 Peter 3:21 KJV, meaning a symbol or representation:
“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God).”

"That’s not my wording — that’s Peter’s. Baptism is an act of obedience that points to what Christ already accomplished, not a means of completing it."

PAUL DIDN'T SAY IT WAS AN ACT OF OBEDIENCE YOU DID!!

Do you really believe yourself?