Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

they won't even recognise God going against the will of man that lives in the flesh, in many many verses, you've got no chance m.

When God has no chance, I promise I'll stop.

 

[Rufus]

Calvinism: the theology where God writes Himself into a contradiction.

In consistent, pure, classic and true Calvinism, they have God decreeing all things, choices, events, actions, responses, etc etc. That would even include sin, yet simultaneously, He’d also be decreeing people to tell others NOT to sin, which would be having God decreeing people to go against what He decreed..and vice versa (having people to sin, which God decreed)!! Blasphemous!!!

Blasphemous is as blasphemous does! Going by your carnal reasoning, this would the Father guilty of his Son's death!

Acts 4:27-28
27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.
NIV

 

[Jordon]

Well this is the incorrect order once again.

It does not take a change of nature to believe ... it takes the Good News correctly taught first and foremost and no one is born unable to respond positively to the Good News >>>> NOT in scripture.

It grieves me to no end how the Baptist churches have been infiltrated with this nonsense.

I concur with the SBC... the church destroyed from within, more >>>>

Calvinism is an Abominable Theological Position

Posted on July 2, 2013 by sbcissues


I am at the end of the road with the issue of Calvinism in the SBC.

I do not believe the Bible comes close to teaching that God hand picks who is and is not saved. I do not believe that the Bible teaches that Jesus died for a select group of individuals and that eternity is reserved for “God’s four and no more.” I do not believe the Bible teaches that man is dead in his trespass and sin to the extent that he is totally incapable of responding to God’s revelatory work found in the Scriptures nor His reconciliatory work rooted in the convicting work of the Holy Spirit in the heart of an unbeliever. I do not believe a lost person must be “born again” so that he MAY repent and then exercise believing or saving faith to become part of God’s forever family. I do not believe the Bible ANYWHERE teaches that God’s call to salvation is an irresistible call that the lost person automatically responds too… like Lazarus did when Jesus called him by name to come out of the grave.

I do not understand how anyone who reads the Bible can come to conclusions similar to these. I really cannot understand that.

This is like telling a dying man to drink but I am holding the cup that has the life giving water that he needs to live. If I do not give it to him, he dies. I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone, especially God, could declare that this kind of message is “good news” to the world. Calvinism posits that the gospel is good news for the elect, those whom God has chosen to saved. Many will go on to say that the gospel is even “good news” to the non-elect in that His glory is magnified as those NOT CHOSEN are condemned to hell. The interesting caveat here is that the ones making that pitiful statement ALWAYS use THEM to describe the non-elect. There is no reference to any possibility of THEM being in danger of eternal damnation; it is always THEM.

The Bible says that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to them that believe. In Calvinism, this CANNOT be true. For until one is regenerated, the gospel has NO POWER to save. Regeneration in the Calvinist system applies to sanctification… it is effectual calling that brings about conversion and THEN repentance and belief kick in and until this time the gospel has NO POWER TO SAVE.

Source - SBC

All logical fallacies based of idealism.

The crowd of idealism has well and truly clouded your judgement.

God doesn't not hand pick any one for salvation without knowing there whole life first, as cited in scripture.

Your just to stubborn to ever admit your wrong in an argument you've actually got yourself into by your own merit.

You then proceed to do what all other law to themselves people do. Try to find reasons to make your assertions look true, whilst all along rejecting what God actually says.

Godly sorrow leads to repentance, which leads to salvation, as in his sorrow placed in your heart as in his living hope placed your heart, as in his enabling grace, as in he gives you repentance based on your examination of guilt.

Out of compassion and his love he gives you penitence then repentance then salvation

 

[Rufus]

One point:

Did the Lord Jesus Christ die for all? @Cameron143 said NO.

All the turmoil, divisiveness, "goobledygook" stems and derives from this single point.

One cannot come to an accurate biblical conclusion of salvation or judgement if this ONE point(the starting line) is wrong. We can have the most eloquent and intellectual explanations known to mankind.....But they will ALWAYS impugn His character and nature if the premise is "the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for ALL."

Christ laid down his life for his sheep (Jn 14:15), his friends (Jn 15:13), his covenant people (Lk 1:54-55; Isa 53:5-8, 11-12) and for his Church (Act 20:28; Eph 5:25). Evidently, these truths to you are exceedingly "hard to understand", aren't they? There is no passage that teaches that Jesus died for all men in the distributive sense. But He did die for "all: men in the qualitative sense, i.e. all kinds of men in the Gentile nations throughout the world.

 

[Rufus]

Of course you are absolutely correct.
All of this to say that the NATION ISRAEL, the House of Jacob, shall, AFTER REPENTANCE, enter into the New Covenant. Precisely as Jesus prophesied here:

Luk 13:34 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Luk 13:35 - Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Yet dear leader @Cameron143 fails to comprehend any of this. None whatsoever. Not only that, I dare you to ask him about his "beliefs" regarding eschatology. Prepare to be mortified....

Still as delusional as ever, I see. Repentance is not in view in either of the two verses above. Moreover, no one can repent until God graciously instills the Fear of Himself into a sinner's heart; for the essence of this reverence for God is that one turns from and shuns evil.

 

[Jordon]

When God has no chance, I promise I'll stop.

you'll need a large army to march around around there house for seven days blowing large trumpets for them to lower there wall m

 

[HeIsHere]

All logical fallacies based of idealism.

The crowd of idealism has well and truly clouded your judgement.

God doesn't not hand pick any one for salvation without knowing there whole life first, as cited in scripture.

Your just to stubborn to ever admit your wrong in an argument you've actually got yourself into by your own merit.

You then proceed to do what all other law to themselves people do. Try to find reasons to make your assertions look true, whilst all along rejecting what God actually says.

Godly sorrow leads to repentance, which leads to salvation, as in his sorrow placed in your heart as in his living hope placed your heart, as in his enabling grace, as in he gives you repentance based on your examination of guilt.

Out of compassion and his love he gives you penitence then repentance then salvation

If you have a counterpoint then use scripture ..not use eisegesis and not taken out of context and using correct hermeneutics.

I can assure you every Calvinist proof text has been decalvinized by many on here and in the literature, web, papers, books over and over again.

 

[Jordon]

If you have a counterpoint then use scripture ..not use eisegesis and not taken out of context and using correct hermeneutics.

I can assure you every Calvinist proof text has been decalvinized by many on here and in the literature, web, papers, books over and over again.

I used scripture shame you never noticed m

Godly sorrow leads to repentance which leads to salvation

How can an unsaved person or any person have his Godly sorrow.

His Godly sorrow is his you cant have it unless he gives it to you

 

[Rufus]

What you are doing is like saying the Words of Moses to the Jews was a message to the Church.

Those words of Ezekiel was spoken to Israel long before the Church age began.

“Therefore say to the Israelites, 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: ​

​

It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake ​

of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. ​

I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, ​

the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, ​

declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.​

​

“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you ​

back into your own land. (That was not directed to the Church at all!)​

​

I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities ​

and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from ​

you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you ​

to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."​

Note!

“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you ​

back into your own land."​

That can not forced to apply to meaning the Church!
For when Christ returns?
He will regather all the scattered Jews from all over the earth and gather them back to Jerusalem and Israel.

​

So New Covenant Jewish believers are not part of the Body of Christ, i.e. his Church?

Also, what was written to ethic Israel in the above passage applies with equal force to ALL Abraham's descendants who are also Jews by virtue of their identity with their spiritual father Abraham.

 

[Rufus]

The Nation Israel. All of the House of Jacob corporately. A nation with their own borders and Temple. That's the end time distinction.

BTW look out your window. The "times of the gentiles" are now over.

You would think that Israel being so abruptly created would raise some eyebrows. But nope....

Luk 21:24 - And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

As usual, you get everything backwards. The times of the Jews have been fulfilled. We're currently in the "times of the gentiles", since the Abrahamic Covenant promise that pertains to the Gentiles is being fulfilled now during this New Covenant dispensation.

 

[Rufus]

For those who tell us that Israel is now become the Church?
They who think that must have no idea that the following passage exists in Scripture.
For it speaks of something that has yet to take place.
Which will happen during the Millennium after the seven-year Tribulation ends.

And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him.” This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’” Zechariah 8:22-23​

​

That can not be speaking of the Church having replaced Israel!
For that passage covers both the Jews and Gentiles as separate entities.

“In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’” ​

​

FWIW....

grace and peace!

The Church is the Israel of God. The Church is the "nation" to whom Christ gave his kingdom after taking it away from national Israel.

 

[Cameron143]

you'll need a large army to march around around there house for seven days blowing large trumpets for them to lower there wall m

Anything, so long as I don't have to sing.

 

[Jordon]

As usual, you get everything backwards. The times of the Jews have been fulfilled. We're currently in the "times of the gentiles", since the Abrahamic Covenant promise that pertains to the Gentiles is being fulfilled now during this New Covenant dispensation.

The work was finished at the cross,

Theres no excuse anymore.

He thinks he can live like a Jew because he understands certain scriptures to be read as The Jewish people are still under the Abrahamic covenant and saved and he believes they where saved by there own faith,

That's the walk you have to break through and you've got absolutely no chance m

 

[Rufus]

HeIsHere said:


That was for service not for individual salvation, your corporate salvation ideas are not in scripture.

Isn't that what salvation is all about: Man's moral/spiritual duty to serve the Living God in love and faithfulness? Wasn't Moses a servant of God? Was not Israel called to serve God? Wasn't Jesus the faithful and humble Servant of God? Also see 1Thes 1:9; Rev 1:6, etc.

 

[cv5]

If you have a counterpoint then use scripture ..not use eisegesis and not taken out of context and using correct hermeneutics.

I can assure you every Calvinist proof text has been decalvinized by many on here and in the literature, web, papers, books over and over again.

Everything @Cameron143 has trotted out in the last couple of pages is utter nonsense, a product of vast (if not total) ignorance.
Its amazing to behold really. Much of it mindless irrational incoherent rambling bafflegab.

Same goes for the rest of the Calvinists. Immense Biblical illiteracy on display.....

 

[Cameron143]

Everything @Cameron143 has trotted out in the last couple of pages is utter nonsense, a product of vast (if not total) ignorance.
Its amazing to behold really. Much of it mindless irrational incoherent rambling bafflegab.

Same goes for the rest of the Calvinists. Immense Biblical illiteracy on display.....

RF

 

[Rufus]

The work was finished at the cross,

Theres no excuse anymore.

He thinks he can live like a Jew because he understands certain scriptures to be read as The Jewish people are still under the Abrahamic covenant and saved and he believes they where saved by there own faith,

That's the walk you have to break through and you've got absolutely no chance m

All Jews who are "children of promise" are under the New Covenant which inaugurates the fulfillment of the promised blessings to the nations under the Abrahamic Covenant.

 

[Believer08]

 

[Kroogz]

Christ laid down his life for his sheep (Jn 14:15), his friends (Jn 15:13), his covenant people (Lk 1:54-55; Isa 53:5-8, 11-12) and for his Church (Act 20:28; Eph 5:25). Evidently, these truths to you are exceedingly "hard to understand", aren't they? There is no passage that teaches that Jesus died for all men in the distributive sense. But He did die for "all: men in the qualitative sense, i.e. all kinds of men in the Gentile nations throughout the world.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. —1 John 2:1-2

But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. —Hebrews 2:9


But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. —2 Peter 2:1

The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL.

False prophets will teach that He did not die for all.......They deny the master of His rightful Glory by hindering/ hiding His Gospel from the lost.

 

[cv5]

As usual, you get everything backwards. The times of the Jews have been fulfilled. We're currently in the "times of the gentiles", since the Abrahamic Covenant promise that pertains to the Gentiles is being fulfilled now during this New Covenant dispensation.

Lol. The "times of the gentiles" ultimately and prophetically pertains to.....the Jews.
Your impenetrable ignorance is truly astounding.....

Luk 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.