No, I am simply stating those people from other nations hearing their language spoken were not the same people who physically participated in the manipulation that led Pilate to decide to crucify Jesus.
Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View
- Thread starter LightBearer316
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
No, I am simply stating those people from other nations hearing their language spoken were not the same people who physically participated in the manipulation that led Pilate to decide to crucify Jesus.
I actually agree with that, brother — not everyone standing there in Acts 2 personally shouted, “Crucify Him.”
But Peter’s words weren’t limited to the few who were physically in Pilate’s courtyard.
He said:
Acts 2:36 (KJV) — “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
That “ye” addressed Israel as a nation — a covenant people who, through their leaders and collective rejection, had turned from their Messiah. Peter was calling the entire nation to repentance, whether they lived in Jerusalem or had come from the far corners of the dispersion.
That’s why Luke earlier wrote:
Acts 2:5 (KJV) — “And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.”
They were Jewish pilgrims who spoke many languages, not Gentiles.
Peter’s message was covenantal: “Repent, and be baptized… in the name of Jesus Christ” — meaning, turn from rejecting Him to believing in Him.
So yes, they weren’t all in Pilate’s court — but they were part of the nation that had rejected their Messiah. Peter’s call was national repentance and personal faith in the risen Christ.
Grace and peace — always in His Word.
Your brothers are the ones who will not accept HIS word either.
I just don't understand why you think your right and they are wrong?
I'm not debating scripture with you, it don't work.
For some reason you think in the middle of Acts 10 they were reborn and leave out what they did seconds or minutes later.
But Acts 8 and 19 prove your wrong and you just will not accept it.
It's like debating with a catholic they can't "SEE" and you can't either.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot (SEE, SEE, SEE) see the kingdom of God.
Just trying to plant seeds.
Acts 2:38 does go with
Acts 43 To 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Along with Eph 2:8-9 and John 3:36
ACTS 2:38 also goes with ALL OF HIS WORD.
It does not go with verse 43 to 47.
As I told you Satan's plan keep them out of the water, WHAT DO YOU THINK? IS IT WORKING?
Catholic don't baptize for remission of sins either.
Do you see the comparison?
"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal 3:27-29
Salvation is not one and done. It's a journey.
Note again, Paul expressed man is not exempt from consequences for actions taken or not taken after believing in Jesus. Paul was not deceived, he knew it was possible to become castaway:
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." 1 Cor 9:27
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12
It was Jesus who said,
"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62
If not rejected, What do you think it means to be castaway?
Thank you for sharing. Upon searching for the source of the documented words I found more detail:
"In this quote from Tertullian's *On Baptism*, he condemns a Gnostic heresy (specifically the Cainites) for attempting to destroy baptism, which he saw as a sacred rite essential for spiritual cleansing and salvation. He argues that the Cainite's venomous doctrine was similar to their Gnostic nature, as they were like "vipers" that shun water, while Christians are like "little fishes" who are born in and need water to survive."
My immediate taught was through water baptism rebirth takes place, and afterward daily washing of the word is required for survival.
He who believes on the Son has everlasting life because he who believes accepts and obeys God's word as written:
And God's word expresses that upon repentance and obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus sins are remitted in association with Jesus sacrifice. (Acts 2, 22)
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:26). By works (obedient action) faith is made perfect. (John 2:22)
Faith at the Dawn of History
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Faithful Abraham
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she[d] bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
The Faith of the Patriarchs
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 [f]of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.
The Faith of Moses
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s command.
24 By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the [g]passing pleasures of sin, 26 esteeming the [h]reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures [i]in Egypt; for he looked to the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.
By Faith They Overcame
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who [j]did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, [k]were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith,...
Their faith was perfect. They believed and obeyed God
The Jews were not the only ones to receive the gospel message that included the need to repent (turn) AND be water baptized in the name of Jesus. Every group of humanity as well as 12 individuals were presented with the same message indicating it's applicable to everyone living in the NT era. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)
@Believer08 Thanks for sharing once again.
Sometimes it takes seeing God's word over and over before people finally see what is right in front of their eyes.
Why read commentaries? They are not written by God but by fallible men who can sow seeds of heresy. The Spirit teaches you all things in Scripture, which was written for the simple to understand.
“At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.”
Matthew 11:25 NKJV
“that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.”
I Corinthians 2:5 NKJV
All conversion accounts include belief, repentance (turning), water baptism in the name of Jesus, and receiving the Holy Ghost. And Jesus said unless a man is born of water and of Spirit he cannot see or enter the kingdom of God. Coincidence? Not likely.
B
Believer08
Guest
“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
Ephesians 4:4-6
“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
Mark 1:4 KJV
“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
Luke 24:46-47
“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:37-38
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
Romans 5:12 KJV
“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ….For he that is dead is freed from sin. ….Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Romans 6:3-4, 7, 11 KJV
“For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Romans 6:23 KJV
“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
Colossians 2:11-13 KJV
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
Galatians 3:27
What do we do with the doctrine did you notice all the times the scriptire says “ you died with Christ “ ? It’s referring to this basic doctrine
“so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:”
“For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.”
Colossians 3:3
“if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: “
“Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:”
Romans 6:8 KJV
“buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
Colossians 2:12 KJV
theres so much central doctrine regarding baptism
That long passage is a classic shift-move in Acts-2:38 debates. Wansvic is trying to redefine “believing” as “believing = obeying everything God commands” — especially baptism in Jesus’ name. So he cites Hebrews 11 to show that “faith acts,” then concludes that saving faith includes the act of baptism itself.
That lets him argue:
“When Acts 2:38 says ‘repent and be baptized for the remission of sins,’ that obedience is the moment salvation happens.”
It’s the same reasoning used by Oneness Pentecostals and other baptismal-regeneration groups.
The biblical response to this heresy is:
- Faith and obedience are related, but not identical.
- Faith produces obedience; it isn’t equal to it.
- Abraham was justified before his works (Romans 4:2-5 KJV).
- His obedience (offering Isaac) proved his faith, it didn’t create it (James 2:21-23).
- Hebrews 11 shows what faith does, not how it saves.
- Each example begins with “By faith”—their actions flowed from belief they already had.
- Noah built, Abraham went, Moses left Egypt—because they already believed God’s word.
- None of those actions earned righteousness; they were expressions of it.
- The New Testament order is constant:
- Believe → receive life → then obey.
- “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.” (John 3:36 KJV)
- “After that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.” (Eph 1:13 KJV)
- Acts 10:43-47 KJV shows the Spirit falling before baptism.
- James 2:26 doesn’t teach salvation-by-works; it teaches that real faith produces works—just as a living body breathes. Works are evidence, not the engine.
Every example you quoted acted because they already believed.
Their obedience proved faith, not produced salvation.
In the same way, baptism follows believing—it testifies to grace already received, not a condition for earning it.
‘By grace are ye saved through faith… not of works.’ (Eph 2:8-9 KJV)
Grace and Peace
That’s exactly the kind of post you’ll see when someone is trying to make baptism itself the saving act, rather than what it represents.
Pilgrimshope has strung together a series of verses that sound like they teach salvation by baptism, but when you examine the context, it becomes clear that these verses describe what baptism symbolizes, not what causes salvation.
Brother, I appreciate the time you took to compile those passages — they beautifully remind us that our union with Christ is central to the gospel. The question, though, is how that union takes place — by the act of baptism itself, or by the faith that baptism represents.
Romans 6 and Colossians 2 use baptismal language to illustrate what faith has already accomplished in the believer. Paul writes,
“Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God.”
— Colossians 2:12 KJV
That phrase “through faith” is key. It shows the burial and resurrection he’s describing are the result of faith, not the water. Baptism is the outward picture of an inward reality — our public testimony that we have already died and been raised with Christ spiritually.
Romans 6:3-4 echoes the same truth. When we believed, we were united with Christ in His death and resurrection; baptism then symbolizes that union. Paul calls it the “likeness” of His death — the visible expression of an invisible grace.
If the water itself accomplished forgiveness, Paul could never have said,
“Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.” (1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV)
Nor could the thief on the cross have entered paradise without it (Luke 23:43 KJV). The consistent pattern of Scripture is:
Believe → Receive life → Then obey.
Faith produces obedience; it is never earned by it.
So yes — baptism is central in doctrine because it proclaims the gospel, but it does not create salvation. Christ’s finished work does that. The water testifies to what grace has already done in the heart.
Grace and peace — always in His Word.
Wansvic is reinforcing a “universal baptismal formula” theology.
Wansvic is trying to argue that every instance of salvation in Acts follows the same pattern:
Repent → be baptized in Jesus’ name → receive remission of sins.
By listing multiple passages (Acts 2, 8, 9, 10, 19, 22), he’s attempting to universalize Acts 2:38 — saying Peter’s words weren’t just for Jews at Pentecost, but for every believer everywhere, for all time.
In other words, he’s saying:
“See? Everyone—Jews, Samaritans, Gentiles, Paul, John’s disciples—had to be water baptized in Jesus’ name. Therefore, that’s the one true gospel pattern.”
This is the Oneness Pentecostal / baptismal regeneration argument.
They try to turn examples in Acts into a doctrine of salvation by baptism.
Brother, you’re right that Acts 2:38 has to be read in its historical and redemptive context, not isolated from the rest of Scripture.
Peter’s audience that day were devout Jews who had just realized they crucified their promised Messiah. His call for them to repent and be baptized was a public declaration of their change of heart toward the very Christ they had rejected. Baptism identified them with Jesus, separating them from the unbelieving nation — it didn’t create salvation, it confessed it.
When you trace Acts forward, the message unfolds consistently:
- In Acts 10:43-47, the Gentiles believed, received the Holy Spirit, and then were baptized.
- In Acts 16:31-33, Paul tells the jailer, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,” before baptism follows.
- In Acts 19, disciples of John were rebaptized only after they believed the fuller revelation of Christ.
Faith first — then obedience follows. Grace always leads; works testify.
Grace and peace — always in His Word.
Yea, hath God said "baptism now saves us?"
The antitype, baptism, also now saves us. Not the laying aside filth of flesh, but the petition of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 3:21
Baptism shall not surely save you, for God doth know faith saves you and baptism is merely a sign.