Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

Of course they can't perform the second knowing because that is what God knows. You have to be God for that!

But that was not what we were discussing. We were discussing what men know so get on topic please.

It's not what God knows. It's God knowing them. It happens to the individual. There is a spiritual reality to this knowing. It is not intellectual knowledge. It is spiritual in nature. An example is found in Romans 8:15-16.
This is what is lacking in those in Matthew 7:21-23. Jesus never came to those individuals in this way.

 

[Genez]

It's not what God knows. It's God knowing them. It happens to the individual. There is a spiritual reality to this knowing. It is not intellectual knowledge. It is spiritual in nature. An example is found in Romans 8:15-16.
This is what is lacking in those in Matthew 7:21-23. Jesus never came to those individuals in this way.

I am trying to follow this conversation and can not make out what it is about.

So, I will ask.

What did you find to argue about this time?

 

[Jordon]

You are the one who is ignorant. I never said human being don't have desires, I said the sin nature doesn't have desires.

Go back to Kindergarten and learn to read.

Well according to Gods word sin wants to control you

So the question is how can something that wants to control you have no desire.

Well if we ask @reneweddaybyday she will say sin is equipping you.

How about you how can sin control you ?

 

[cv5]

well at least Cameron likes to share his intelligence, which is far cry from how you like to insult intelligence, I wouldn't be surprised if you had him down as the village idiot in your superiority.

Why would being dead wrong be considered "intelligent"?

And the thing is, this predilection is all to common. You may as well call it as pretty much ubiquitous.

 

[Jordon]

I am trying to follow this conversation and can not make out what it is about.

So, I will ask.

What did you find to argue about this time?

I just wonder are you conscious of what Jesus says about calling brothers fools, which you do consistently,.

I just wonder if you've lost consciousness.

 

[Jordon]

Why would being dead wrong be considered "intelligent"?

And the thing is, this predilection is all to common. You may as well call it as pretty much ubiquitous.

As far as I can see your bias in this thread is completely above our imagination.

I could be wrong but if I never knew you better, I would say you've never received the milk of the word to begin with correctly , and you went straight into the meat of the word and your self taught

 

[sawdust]

I guess you didn't check out any of those passages, did you? The sin nature certainly produces evil desires within sinners. This is what makes human beings sinners. And what's even worse is that no man has the power to run from himself and what is in his heart and nature.

I guess you didn't read what I said.

I wasn't talking about what the sin nature produces, you said the "desires of the sin nature" but the sin nature does not have desires it is "another law" Rom.7:23, but one not from God, working in the flesh just as digestion is a law working in the flesh. It has no desires of it's own, it simply reacts.

 

[sawdust]

That's your carnal conclusion, not mine. It appears that God never intended to circumcise all human hearts so that all human beings would love him. God has mercy on whom He WILLS to have mercy, and He has compassion on those whom He WILLs to have compassion. Did God circumcise Pharaoh's heart? Esau's heart. Yet, circumcision is an unconditional promise to God's covenant people. So, this fact alone explains why God's supernatural, efficacious work of circumcision is not universal in scope.

It was what you said. God doesn't love them therefore they cannot love.

 

[sawdust]

The passive voice concerning God knowing us is what I have been talking about the whole time as juxtaposed to man knowing God. Are you deliberately ignoring this or are you just naive?

But that wasn't the topic. You do this too often Cameron. There is no passive gnosis word in the Rom.1:21 verse so there is no comparison to Gal.4:9. You simply changed the subject to confuse the issue. Very disingenuous!

 

[sawdust]

It's not what God knows. It's God knowing them. It happens to the individual. There is a spiritual reality to this knowing. It is not intellectual knowledge. It is spiritual in nature. An example is found in Romans 8:15-16.
This is what is lacking in those in Matthew 7:21-23. Jesus never came to those individuals in this way.

Which has nothing to do with the comparion of the gnosis word in Rom1:21 and Gal.4:9. You are off course again.

 

[sawdust]

I am trying to follow this conversation and can not make out what it is about.

So, I will ask.

What did you find to argue about this time?

He did his usual trick of deviating from the actual topic. He is quite devious inasmuch he doesn't go all 180 degree off, just slightly off so he can continue justifying his argument. He isn't necessarily wrong in what he argues but it simply wasn't what the topic was about, so has no application to the debate.

 

[cv5]

He did his usual trick of deviating from the actual topic. He is quite devious inasmuch he doesn't go all 180 degree off, just slightly off so he can continue justifying his argument. He isn't necessarily wrong in what he argues but it simply wasn't what the topic was about, so has no application to the debate.

Oh yes. He is notorious for doing exactly that.
Subtile slithering......not a good look.

 

[cv5]

That's your carnal conclusion, not mine. It appears that God never intended to circumcise all human hearts so that all human beings would love him. God has mercy on whom He WILLS to have mercy, and He has compassion on those whom He WILLs to have compassion. Did God circumcise Pharaoh's heart? Esau's heart. Yet, circumcision is an unconditional promise to God's covenant people. So, this fact alone explains why God's supernatural, efficacious work of circumcision is not universal in scope.

Yes @Rufus buddy, we're very well aware of the fact that you totally flunked out of Romans 9.

But why allow total failure to stop you from regurgitating the same error over and over again?

 

[Jordon]

Oh yes. He is notorious for doing exactly that.
Subtile slithering......not a good look.

why should we believe your notorious views about people your reputation along with genez and sawdust is you constantly plagiarize people.

And constantly have doubt.

I just wonder have you tried actually talking to Cameron in private ?

 

[Genez]

I just wonder are you conscious of what Jesus says about calling brothers fools, which you do consistently,.

I just wonder if you've lost consciousness.

That pertains to the saying, a fool says in his heart there is no God.
Jesus used the same word for that passage.

In essence, calling someone a 'fool', was telling a brother he is not saved and does not know God.

Be careful!

 

[Jordon]

That pertains to the saying, a fool says in his heart there is no God.
Jesus used the same word for that passage.

In essence, calling someone a 'fool', was telling a brother he is not saved and does not know God.

Be careful!

Oh so now where getting somewhere m, have you apologized to Cameron yet for declaring publicly Cameron was going to hell ?

 

[Genez]

Oh so now where getting somewhere m, have you apologized to Cameron yet for declaring publicly Cameron was going to hell ?

Hell is having to post with you.

 

[Genez]

What is happening now is what happens when envy and resentment has lost its ability to cope....

 

[Jordon]

Hell is having to post with you.

your reputation once again compliments you.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jesus said to them that He never knew them. They clearly knew Him and made a big deal of it...Lord, Lord. What was not true of them was that He never knew them.

I believe the "Lord, Lord" folks know of Him, but they do not know Him.

There are a couple of different Greek words which are translated into the English word "know".

Greek oida means to perceive, have knowledge of, have awareness of.
Greek ginōskō means to know personally, know experientially.

To me, the "Lord, Lord" folks "know" Jesus in the oida sense. They are aware of Jesus ... they know of Him ... they try to act like they are born again, dress like a born again believer, talk like a born again believer ... but they do not know the Lord Jesus Christ in the way the born again believer knows Christ. They only have knowledge of Him, but do not know Him.

Certainly He knew who they were so He wasn't unfamiliar with their identities. But He never came to them in the sense of Romans 8:15-16.

Here's what He said a couple verses later in Matt 7:

Matthew 7:24-27

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

The "Lord, Lord" folks are those who hear the sayings of Jesus and doeth them not.

There are only two responses a person has when the truth of God's Word is revealed ...

believe and receive the blessing.
suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence.

And clearly as revealed in Matt 7:24-27, the people hear ... so none of that "natural man cannot hear" applies in your stated verses.

.