Was lucifer an archangel before he fell in the Bible?

[Falconn007]

What is your faith? Does not seem to be biblical. You do realize this is a Christian forum? It seems you are very touchy and I'm sorry about that. At any rate asking questions or repeating what YOU yourself wrote is not judging. With that attitude, you might consider the fact you may not be able to stay here. Not my rules. This forum has rules and being polite should not have to be made a rule but it seems you need encouragement in that area.

Careful what you assume ... How do you KNOW for sure I was not sent just to give you a simple Spiritual message from God and then die tomorrow, are you that for certain ?!?!

here goes ;

What is your faith? It is a Spiritual Gift from God, just like his spoken written down Word is alive in Spirit, so I try as best to be led by Spirit.

Does not seem to be biblical. I would hope not, what you do not care to acknowledge is that what you call 'biblical' is actually all just translations of the Spoken Word of God, that is written down through Holy Spirit inspiration. None of the original manuscripts exist only copies of which the translations, in many different languages are made and in errant called the bible.

Go look for yourself in the first pages of your translations, you will find a publishing edition number.

God's Word is constant and needs no human revisions.

You do realize this is a Christian forum? You do realize to be 'Christian' is a FAITH, not some exclusionary gang, nor a worldly segregated religion. This is a place to discuss Christian Faith in a forum, is it not !?! Ah but the conditions you want to set are not specified until you upset the fodder.

It seems you are very touchy and I'm sorry about that. I am Spiritual authoritive direct, if it comes off as touchy, then do not touch me. I'm sure your sorry, then stop touching me!!!!!

At any rate asking questions or repeating what YOU yourself wrote is not judging. AHEM...... this is also a form of Judgment, that is unless you got scripture to back up this opinion of yours. I encourage asking question and trying to help in finding answer to these questions , basically why I came hear.

With that attitude, you might consider the fact you may not be able to stay here. this is a "Christian forum' the word 'forum' itself invites many platitudes for discussion. I go where I am lead, I posted true scripture that is not rebuked but mocked and challenge by carnal ideology, go figure you threaten me now with being banned. That is your choice after all.

Not my rules. yeah I bet

This forum has rules and being polite should not have to be made a rule but it seems you need encouragement in that area. Then why have an 'ignore button'.

WHY not just state what you want to really say , "YOU have to think like us and be like us to be considered one of us." NONE of which is Spiritual to that I attest. The fear of Truth is showing and you hate that feeling.

 

[Falconn007]

From BibleGateway.org...




This looks to be a translation issue, not a doctrine issue.

There is this thing.... Well read it for your self :

Isaiah 14:11
11All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

12How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

13You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. b
14I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
15But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.

If, as you believe 'lucifer' is 'satan', HOW DOES SATAN/lucifer DIE HERE !?! Seriously how does a spirit end up DEAD in a GRAVE ?!?

Please explain with scriptures.

 

[Dino246]

If, as you believe 'lucifer' is 'satan', HOW DOES SATAN/lucifer DIE HERE !?! Seriously how does a spirit end up DEAD in a GRAVE ?!?

Please explain with scriptures.

“I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭82‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/psa.82.6-7.KJV

 

[pinebeach]

Careful what you assume ... How do you KNOW for sure I was not sent just to give you a simple Spiritual message from God and then die tomorrow, are you that for certain ?!?!

here goes ;

What is your faith? It is a Spiritual Gift from God, just like his spoken written down Word is alive in Spirit, so I try as best to be led by Spirit.

Does not seem to be biblical. I would hope not, what you do not care to acknowledge is that what you call 'biblical' is actually all just translations of the Spoken Word of God, that is written down through Holy Spirit inspiration. None of the original manuscripts exist only copies of which the translations, in many different languages are made and in errant called the bible.

Go look for yourself in the first pages of your translations, you will find a publishing edition number.

God's Word is constant and needs no human revisions.

You do realize this is a Christian forum? You do realize to be 'Christian' is a FAITH, not some exclusionary gang, nor a worldly segregated religion. This is a place to discuss Christian Faith in a forum, is it not !?! Ah but the conditions you want to set are not specified until you upset the fodder.

It seems you are very touchy and I'm sorry about that. I am Spiritual authoritive direct, if it comes off as touchy, then do not touch me. I'm sure your sorry, then stop touching me!!!!!

At any rate asking questions or repeating what YOU yourself wrote is not judging. AHEM...... this is also a form of Judgment, that is unless you got scripture to back up this opinion of yours. I encourage asking question and trying to help in finding answer to these questions , basically why I came hear.

With that attitude, you might consider the fact you may not be able to stay here. this is a "Christian forum' the word 'forum' itself invites many platitudes for discussion. I go where I am lead, I posted true scripture that is not rebuked but mocked and challenge by carnal ideology, go figure you threaten me now with being banned. That is your choice after all.

Not my rules. yeah I bet

This forum has rules and being polite should not have to be made a rule but it seems you need encouragement in that area. Then why have an 'ignore button'.

WHY not just state what you want to really say , "YOU have to think like us and be like us to be considered one of us." NONE of which is Spiritual to that I attest. The fear of Truth is showing and you hate that feeling.

Well, I'll just say bye now cause that seems appropriate.

 

[Falconn007]

“I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭82‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/psa.82.6-7.KJV

DID this truth even entered your fray ???

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will returns to God who gave it.

witness...

Hebrews 12:9
Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?

I believe my question that you have not answered is; how does a spirit die and then go into a grave.

 

[tourist]

Lucifer became Satan.

 

[tourist]

Is it not a wonder how many carnal minded people who preach this nonsense of 'satan' being 'lucifer' , just ignorantly disregard what God commands :

This verse from the chapter you quoted is a direct contradiction to your claim.

12“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!

Is anyone who disagrees with your version of the truth a carnal minded person?

 

[tourist]

I've read several of your posts over the last couple of days. You use the words "carnal" and "ignorant" often, implying that (most) others are in at least one of those categories.

Unfortunately, that pattern tells me a few things about you... none of them good. Perhaps you should consider toning down your rhetoric; you might even find that many here are far less ignorant and far less carnal than you.

Perhaps @Falconn007 is one of those 'holier than thou' types?

I fully concur with your estimation.

 

[tourist]

I will share this one simple thought , why not just simply IGNORE ME

What's the fun in that?

 

[tourist]

You just do not get it. This very response to you right now, is a typical carnal ignorant conversation you and I are having without Spirit.

WOW !!! ..... Imagine that I included myself in this worthless carnal conversation , Because I know I am yet still carnal, I have not yet transcended into Spirit, which means with a thorn at my side(no pun intended) I am still human form tada !!!!!!!

WAIT!! a sec.... "I don’t need you to provide dictionary definitions or biblical citations" .... then what on your earth, are you doing in a Christian forum!?! Most, if not all the discussions are on, as you lowly title them, "biblical citations."

When, if ever you may have something Spiritual that you and I may feast on , I will listen, til then I am not holding my breathe.

Tada!!!!!!!

 

[SonJudgment]

There is this thing.... Well read it for your self :

Isaiah 14:11
11All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

12How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

13You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. b
14I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
15But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.

If, as you believe 'lucifer' is 'satan', HOW DOES SATAN/lucifer DIE HERE !?! Seriously how does a spirit end up DEAD in a GRAVE ?!?

Please explain with scriptures.

Your question is answered in the very next verse Isaiah 14:16 as well as the identity of Lucifer from that chapter. Your premise is correct actually, indeed Satan never actually called an angel nor called Lucifer in the whole of the Bible. However Satan isn't like unkillable, Satan's death is actually foretold in the Bible in Revelation 20, and it will happen, praise Jesus.

 

[Falconn007]

This verse from the chapter you quoted is a direct contradiction to your claim.

12“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!

Is anyone who disagrees with your version of the truth a carnal minded person?

I have hope for those who continually choke on the Word of God Spirit.

You state an unscriptual opinion : "This verse from the chapter you quoted is a direct contradiction to your claim."

****Notice how you only post a bit and subtract the rest of the post, to fit your ideology.

Rebuke with scriptures, so that I may be sharpened in Spirit. I care less for any opinion that makes the thinned skin upset.


Lets take a Spiritual look at your so called contradiction, that you say I posted.

Isaiah 14:11
11All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

12How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

13You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. b
14I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
15But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.

Please in all you holiness explain in scriptures, how your 'lucifer' DIES in the grave!!!!

Those with eyes to see and ears to hear would DISCERN :

Isaiah 14:4
4that you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say:

OH! .... but you of course are exempt from the do not add nor subtract from the Word of God.

when you have anything of spiritual substance maybe i'll bite.

 

[tourist]

when you have anything of spiritual substance maybe i'll bite.

Hope that you have a good appetite.

 

[Falconn007]

Your question is answered in the very next verse Isaiah 14:16 as well as the identity of Lucifer from that chapter. Your premise is correct actually, indeed Satan never actually called an angel nor called Lucifer in the whole of the Bible. However Satan isn't like unkillable, Satan's death is actually foretold in the Bible in Revelation 20, and it will happen, praise Jesus.

here is the nest verse:

16“Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,

ahem.... satan is NEVER called a man.

Well yes satan is cast into the second death, the Lake of Fire, but in Isiah, it clearly states that the King of Babylon dies in a grave.

Isiah 14 is a mock of the King of Babylon God instructs to be said the that king and only that King of Babylon. \there is an absent refrence to satan.

***hint grasping at straws doe not make it a truth.

 

[TheLearner]

Is it not a wonder how many carnal minded people who preach this nonsense of 'satan' being 'lucifer' , just ignorantly disregard what God commands :

Isaiah 14:4
4that you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say:

“How the oppressor has ceased,
The golden city ceased!
5The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked,
The scepter of the rulers;
6He who struck the people in wrath with a continual stroke,
He who ruled the nations in anger,
Is persecuted and no one hinders.
7The whole earth is at rest and quiet;
They break forth into singing.
8Indeed the cypress trees rejoice over you,
And the cedars of Lebanon,
Saying, ‘Since you were cut down,
No woodsman has come up against us.’

9“Hell from beneath is excited about you,
To meet you at your coming;
It stirs up the dead for you,
All the chief ones of the earth;
It has raised up from their thrones
All the kings of the nations.
10They all shall speak and say to you:
‘Have you also become as weak as we?
Have you become like us?
11Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
And the sound of your stringed instruments;
The maggot is spread under you,
And worms cover you.’

12“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!

>>>> This is still all part of "take this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say:"
No where is there a REMOTE connection between 'lucifer' and 'satan' and no mention of satan anywhere.

And most important is that the ancient Hebrew language is being translated to English, but they fail to mention that the word 'lucifer' is a LATIN WORD.

This is the PROPER translation :

O star of the morning, הֵילֵ֣ל (hei·lel) Strong's 1966. helel

Definition: a shining one

Topical Lexicon
Name and Context
הֵילֵל (Helel) appears once in the Hebrew Bible, Isaiah 14:12, within an oracle AGAINST the KING of Babylon. The prophet employs celestial imagery—“day star, son of the dawn”—to depict a proud ruler whose lofty ambitions end in humiliation.

>>>> There is absolutely NO ASSOCIATION with 'satan', the Latin word 'lucifer' does not ever appear again in the OT and certainly the Latin word 'lucifer' is not even taught in the NT. All the brouhaha comes from simpleton carnal ignorance.

continuing.......

13For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

16“Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,
Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’

18“All the kings of the nations,
All of them, sleep in glory,
Everyone in his own house;
19But you are cast out of your grave
Like an abominable branch,
Like the garment of those who are slain,
Thrust through with a sword,
Who go down to the stones of the pit,
Like a corpse trodden underfoot.
20You will not be joined with them in burial,
Because you have destroyed your land
And slain your people.
The brood of evildoers shall never be named.
21Prepare slaughter for his children
Because of the iniquity of their fathers,
Lest they rise up and possess the land,
And fill the face of the world with cities.”

That is about king of Babylon, not satan. The mountian is the pagan home of false gods.

 

[tablet123]

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Lucifer is Satan for it was Lucifer that fell from heaven and it is Satan that fell like lightning from heaven.

Lucifer was his name when he was created before he fell to represent his name as light bearer.

But when he fell for his rebellion his name was changed to Satan to represent his nature as evil and he was no longer light bearer.

Like God changed Jacob's name to Israel.

And Abram to Abraham.

And Sarai to Sarah.

And Cephas to Peter.

And Saul to Paul.

To identify their new nature as following God.

That is the trick of the devil to deceive people in to believing Lucifer is the good guy and Satan is represented as evil and they are opposite.

And that trick will cause the world to worshipping Lucifer as a god, and an alien, that gave mankind intelligence, and will cause them to evolve to be spiritual, and greater, along with the New Age Christ who is Lucifer inhabiting the body of the man of sin.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The new age that interprets the Bible and religions according to the occult and evolution, and people are going to evolve to be spiritual, and greater, and Jesus became an ascended master among others, and there is no personal God, but they honor the God of forces the power of the Cosmos, and the New Age Christ is the next world teacher.

The time will come that people will not want to hear the truth of the Bible but want to hear it according to the new age.

Alice Bailey the biggest prophet of the new age.

She claimed to be a conservative Christian but changed her beliefs to the occult, and an occult interpretation of the Bible given to her by a Tibetan Monk.

She said there is an outer circle and inner circle of the occult and the inner circle is the true church which is the occult secret societies.

She was married to a Freemason who agreed with her occult teachings and theosophy so he is part of the inner circle of Freemasonry.

The esoteric meaning of Lucifer.

lucistrust.org

There are comments on the World Wide Web claiming that the Lucis Trust was once called the Lucifer Trust. Such was never the case.

However, for a brief period of two or three years in the early 1920’s, when Alice and Foster Bailey were beginning to publish the books published under her name, they named their fledgling publishing company “Lucifer Publishing Company”.

By 1925 the name was changed to Lucis Publishing Company and has remained so ever since. Both “Lucifer” and “Lucis” come from the same word root, lucis being the Latin generative case meaning of light.

The Baileys' reasons for choosing the original name are not known to us, but we can only surmise that they, like the great teacher H.P. Blavatsky, for whom they had enormous respect, sought to elicit a deeper understanding of the sacrifice made by Lucifer.

Alice and Foster Bailey were serious students and teachers of Theosophy, a spiritual tradition which views Lucifer as one of the solar Angels, those advanced Beings Who Theosophy says descended (thus “the fall”) from Venus to our planet eons ago to bring the principle of mind to what was then animal-man.

In the theosophical perspective, the descent of these solar Angels was not a fall into sin or disgrace but rather an act of great sacrifice, as is suggested in the name “Lucifer” which means light-bearer.

Continued in next post

 

[tablet123]

Continued from above post

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Lucifer is an angel for Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and Michael and his angels defeated them and they were cast to earth.

This war has not happened yet for this is not Satan being kicked out of the 3rd heaven but kicked out of the first and second heaven he has access to.

This is when God allows the world a certain amount of time to go against the truth so He can end sin on earth.

Which they will establish a system on a world wide level contrary to the operation of God based on the new age that exalts people.

And they will stop the preaching of the Gospel of Christ and the belief in a personal God.

When the devils are cast to earth Satan will appear as the antichrist and the devils will deceive all people who do not love the truth which is the strong delusion God will send them.

The Bible says Babylon will never have physical dominion again but her life was prolonged for a time and a season.

Which means her ways are still on earth which she represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man, which that is what the beast kingdom is about.

The beast kingdom is Babylon in spirit.

Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

Isa 14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Isa 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

Isa 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

Satan does not open the house of his prisoners but he keeps them captive.

And the king of Babylon made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms, and made the world as a wilderness, and did weaken the nations.

Not only did Lucifer influence Babylon many years ago but he will also influence the world in the future at the resurrected Babylon called the beast kingdom by way of the new age that acknowledges Lucifer as the savior of the world who gave them intelligence, will cause them to have peace, advance, and evolve.

But it is Satan that is cast to the earth and appears as the New Age Christ and rules the world.

Lucifer is Satan.

That is the trick of the devil to deceive people in to believing Lucifer is the good guy and Satan is represented as evil and they are opposite.

 

[SonJudgment]

here is the nest verse:

16“Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,

ahem.... satan is NEVER called a man.

Well yes satan is cast into the second death, the Lake of Fire, but in Isiah, it clearly states that the King of Babylon dies in a grave.

Isiah 14 is a mock of the King of Babylon God instructs to be said the that king and only that King of Babylon. \there is an absent refrence to satan.

***hint grasping at straws doe not make it a truth.

Indeed Isaiah 14 is not about Satan, and since Isaiah 14 is the primary chapter for the Lucifer idea simply because some translations say Lucifer and some say morning star, your overall premise is indeed correct. At the same time though with that understood then there is a new question; who is the prophecy about? Indeed from the context clues in the chapter it is addressed to the king of Babylon, a man, and furthermore a man of power, one able to make the earth to tremble and shook the kingdoms. The most likely candidate iis found later in the canon in Nebuchadnezzar whom fits these terms very well and his downfall in Daniel 4 somewhat mirrors this prophecy. From our vantage point we read back into history with the Bible but you have to keep in mind how the Bible covers a large span of time that has already passed. Isaiah lived many generations before well attested in other books like Kings, so from his vantage point this is indeed a prophecy, Nebuchadnezzar wasn't even born when Isaiah was at the height of his life and when he probably made this prophecy, so indeed Isaiah is still a true and sure prophet as this prophecy fits the life of Nebuchadnezzar later in the Bible as well as in his own secular sources like a glove fits the hand, praise Jesus.

 

[Falconn007]

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Continued in next post

whoa that is a lot ,, but before I even try to read more you have to explain with scriptures how does 'lucifer die in a grave.

Isaiah 14:11
11All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

>>>> 'lucifer' dies and eaten by worms. HOW !?!

12How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
13You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. b
14I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
15But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.

>>>> 'lucifer' is dead. HOW !?!

16“Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,

>>>> 'lucifer' is a man.. Now I got to hear you try and wiggle out of this Truth.

 

[Falconn007]

Indeed Isaiah 14 is not about Satan, and since Isaiah 14 is the primary chapter for the Lucifer idea simply because some translations say Lucifer and some say morning star, your overall premise is indeed correct. At the same time though with that understood then there is a new question; who is the prophecy about? Indeed from the context clues in the chapter it is addressed to the king of Babylon, a man, and furthermore a man of power, one able to make the earth to tremble and shook the kingdoms. The most likely candidate iis found later in the canon in Nebuchadnezzar whom fits these terms very well and his downfall in Daniel 4 somewhat mirrors this prophecy. From our vantage point we read back into history with the Bible but you have to keep in mind how the Bible covers a large span of time that has already passed. Isaiah lived many generations before well attested in other books like Kings, so from his vantage point this is indeed a prophecy, Nebuchadnezzar wasn't even born when Isaiah was at the height of his life and when he probably made this prophecy, so indeed Isaiah is still a true and sure prophet as this prophecy fits the life of Nebuchadnezzar later in the Bible as well as in his own secular sources like a glove fits the hand, praise Jesus.

Thank you for that.. SonJudgment


WOW, I love the wonder of a true fellowship in Spirit.

Nebuchadnezzar created cities that are later cast down from heaven.

The real shocker is that all of this is a Spiritual parable. The intention to showcase the Living power of the Word of God in the OT - Jesus.

Case in point, You must DISCERN Jesus in the OT to fully discern the OT becoming fulfilled in the NT.