Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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reneweddaybyday said:
again, Paul was speaking to born again believers ... so we're talking about folks who have already come to faith the Lord Jesus Christ.

In Phil 1:29, Paul speaks of those who suffer for Christ's sake and he tells the believers that God will supply all that is needed in order for the believer to stand and withstand in time of suffering. This is a great and precious promise to the believer.

I believe God strengthens faith within believers who suffer on behalf of the Lord Jesus Christ. God works within to make perfect, establish, strengthen, settle the believer who is going through times of trial or suffering (1 Peter 5:10).

Do you believe God has to "give" faith to those to who are already born again?

There's a record in Acts 5 when the apostles were imprisoned and beaten because they taught in the temple ... when they were released, they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name (Acts 5:41) and they were daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ (Acts 5:42).

You think the apostles relied on their own strength/capability? No, God sustained them ... God strengthened their faith ... God caused them to rejoice in the midst of adversity.

That truth is revealed in Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake
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I believe what it states: ...it is given...to believe on Him...

It's a simple statement. No need to dance all around.
 
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reneweddaybyday said:
agree





nope ... if that was the case, what is written in Gen 3:21 would precede Gen 3:15 ... but the record is clear that ... first God declared the coming of the Promised Seed (Messiah) ... then in acknowledgment of faith on the part of both Adam and Eve, Adam changed the name of his wife from 'iššâ to ḥaûâ ... then God made sacrifice/offering to atone for sin and made coats to cover the shame of both Adam and Eve.





nope ... salvation is wholly by grace through faith ... both Adam and Eve believed as evidenced by God making sacrifice/offering and clothing both Adam and Eve.





what you claim I "do not believe" and/or "what I believe" is your opinion based on faulty understanding ... so quit projecting your erroneous surmising on to me.

Scripture is clear that the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe which results in the promised blessing.

Scripture is clear that suppressing the truth in unrighteousness results in the consequence stated.





your error has been dealt with many, many times in this thread. You project your own surmising on to others ... you do not read what is being stated in response to your erroneous suppositions with clear comprehension ... then claim that what you believe others believe is "FWers speak[ing] out of both sides of [their] mouth!" when it is your own faulty conclusion that is error.





not sure why you brought this up as God's Word is clear that those who are born again are His children ... those who are not born again are not His children.
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What you conveniently overlook in Gen 3:15 is the decree of enmity between the woman and the serpent. You jumped straight to the messianic portion of the text without dealing with decree that concerned the woman. Even Gen 3:21 doesn't help you because Eve's two acknowledgments long follow God's atoning provision -- which is entirely backwards according to FWT. Her confession and request for forgiveness should have preceded both vv. 15 and 21! I mean look what YOU wrote above that I highlighted in red? Where is the evidence of faith on part of either A or E prior to the above two verses?

And how does Adam's naming his wife "Eve" rise to the level of him having personal faith!? I don't see in the text where it's stated that both of them were parents of the spiritual living.

So, yes...you are forced to ignore the implications to your interpretation of Gen 3:21 since you use this text as "proof" that God saved both our first parents, yet there is zero evidence that Adam confessed his sin or sought God's forgiveness.

And...since you so glibly put A&E in the same salvation/grace/faith boat together, how come God didn't do that in 3:22-24!? Maybe Eve was "more saved" than Adam? :rolleyes: Why didn't God's anger burn against both of them? Why didn't He include the woman in his eviction notice? And I could ask the same question re v. 15: Why didn't God place enmity between the serpent and both our first parents?

You lame interpretation of Genesis is based upon your personal assumptions that you read into the passage.
 
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Cameron143 said:
I believe what it states: ...it is given...to believe on Him...

It's a simple statement. No need to dance all around.
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It someone said?

"It is given... thou shall not steal?"

Dopes that mean one will automatically not steal?
 
Genez said:


He who fears the Lord does not distort God's character to make their dogma work.

The Lord is fair and just.
God is no respecter of persons.
He shows no favoritism.

But, with one exception.

God will show favoritism when he chooses to save some, and to not save another who is just as equally depraved.

To do so, He must activate Irresistible grace to overwhelm the one he chooses to believe in Him, while leaving another
equally depraved, to suffer in the Lake of Fire.

That's a beautiful God you fear?
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So, what is the basis of this "favoritism" that you allege? No one, yet, has answered this question. You have a talking point well memorized and down pat but no reasonable, coherent, intelligent, biblical answer when anyone questions your lame objection.
 
HeIsHere said:
I used to think the Calvinists were just weird with weird ideas, I mean how could any Christian believe a dogma like divine reprobation

however, when I learned about "stealth Calvinism" and the scheming and strategizing to expand their false doctrine from the

seminaries into the evangelical churches I knew it did not come from a "good" place.
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God has determined to leave the fallen angels in that state, didn't He?
 
reneweddaybyday said:
I love this verse ...

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
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Me too! It gives me great comfort to know that God's love for his people is conditional in nature.
 
sawdust said:
Yeah and Obama wasn't President 2020 to 2024. (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more) ;):ROFL:



So murdering those who disagree with you is ok as long as it's humane?

Just as well we are past those times then, hey!? ;)
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Ignorance on full display by some.

The Obama reference is an interesting one for sure.

It is a well known historical fact that John Calvin and his supporters through the use of his influence created a type of theocracy in Geneva.

He, being a trained lawyer influenced the city leaders to bring about moral "Protestant" reform by implementing laws that aligned with his interpretation of scripture.

There were many who were burned at the stake under John Calvin's theocracy, mostly with regards to allegations of witchcraft.

My goodness he even policed how much clothing people were allowed to own and his fellow churchmen traveled the city doing inspections and people were thrown in jail for breaking the rules.
 
Rufus said:
So, what is the basis of this "favoritism" that you allege? No one, yet, has answered this question. You have a talking point well memorized and down pat but no reasonable, coherent, intelligent, biblical answer when anyone questions your lame objection.
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It is not what I allege.
That what you accuse me of, is what the TULIP, goose steppers, allege!

For if all men are equally depraved from birth?
And, God must somehow "force by grace" men become saved?
Those He makes get saved He favors over others no better than the ones chosen.
(of course! that is a contradiction in terms... but, that is where you TULIP farmers leave us with)

So? To God in his choice?
There has to be an element of favoritism if he chooses to save some out from all who are equally depraved and opposed to Him.

Now.. go fall asleep in your mind, and forget what I just said.
 
cv5 said:
Evidently poor @Rufus buddy has been barking up the wrong tree for 45 years.
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It wasn't Calvin's tree! I came to believe the Five Doctrines of Grace honestly through the living Word of God and the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
 
Rufus said:
It wasn't Calvin's tree! I came to believe the Five Doctrines of Grace honestly through the living Word of God and the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
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And, we do not have the Holy Spirit!

(we get it)


SNOB!
 
Genez said:
It is not what I allege.
That what you accuse me of, is what the TULIP, goose steppers, allege!

For if all men are equally depraved from birth?
And, God must somehow "force by grace" men become saved?
Those He makes get saved He favors over others no better than the ones chosen.
(of course! that is a contradiction in terms... but, that is where you TULIP farmers leave us with)

So? To God in his choice?
There has to be an element of favoritism if he chooses to save some out from all who are equally depraved and opposed to Him.

Now.. go fall asleep in your mind, and forget what I just said.
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There "has to be"...yet you don't have their first idea what the grounds for such favoritism would be! I mean look how he played "favorites" with Ishmael and Esau in Rom 9. :coffee:
 
HeIsHere said:
My goodness he even policed how much clothing people were allowed to own and his fellow churchmen traveled the city doing inspections and people were thrown in jail for breaking the rules.
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That carried over into the new world. An ancestor of mine was fined for cutting down a tree on his own property and covering his house in clapboard. He eventually had to flee Puritan controlled towns in Mass. and settled in what is now Rhode Island where it was more live and let live
 
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