Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[sawdust]

Religious sounding pseudo-philosophical baffegab fit for the rubbish heap.

Totally useless, but certainly not harmless.

If he only knew what I have experienced.

"Yet though He slay me, I will trust in the Lord"

These are not idle words on my part for I have come close to death many times and more near misses than I can remember.

"the joy of the Lord is my strength."

but certainly not harmless.

Don't worry, they "pass over" me.

 

[Rufus]

Pure bunk. Start to finish.

Not surprised that you don't know how to handle metaphors. And I suspect that deficiency is only the very tip of your spiritual iceberg.

 

[cv5]

If he only knew what I have experienced.

"Yet though He slay me, I will trust in the Lord"

These are not idle words on my part for I have come close to death many times and more near misses than I can remember.

"the joy of the Lord is my strength."



Don't worry, they "pass over" me.

Much love and regards. You possess among the finest hearts and minds here on CC.

And your exegesis is beautifully wrought.

 

[Rufus]

Being alive to God and in relationship with Him doesn't automatically make one believe God's word as true, just ask Adam.

ps. Or Lucifer for that matter.

Actually, I'd rather ask the very Embodiment of the New Covenant -- you know the Last Adam who is everything the first was not, which is the reason the two are always contrasted in scripture. So, yes, the gift of spiritual life in this New Covenant economy is irrevocable; for ALL the promises of God are YES in Christ -- not yes and no, not maybe. It's a done deal.

 

[Jordon]

Then are you confessing your constant finger pointing? No-one set you as judge did they?

You know what they say about pointing a finger at someone? You always have three pointing back at you.

yep you can call someone judging for speaking the truth all you want.

It still won't stop me calling some a hypocrite who keeps on behaving like one, only way to stop them being one. He accuses people of attacking who are being attacked whilst attacking people himself , that's a hypocrite

 

[Kroogz]

The doctrine of the super-determinist has God getting all of the blame and none of the glory.

Satan is thrilled with their dogma no doubt. Suits his purposes to a tee.

What other conclusion can one draw with the reformed/calvie/ tulip theory?

If their theory of predestination and election is salvation/eternal life.

Then.......God predestined and elected some for the LoF.

You can't have one without the other.

And I totally agree with you. Satan is pleading his case with " I had no choice in the matter."....It's all your(Gods) fault. And reformed theory is playing right into the lie.

 

[cv5]

Not surprised that you don't know how to handle metaphors. And I suspect that deficiency is only the very tip of your spiritual iceberg.

Who are you trying to impress? Yourself?

The wise and biblically literate are watching your antics with a mixture of dismay and revulsion.

Just to let you know.

 

[Kroogz]

WHAT!!! Regeneration is the birth from above. Spirit gives birth to spirit. That is regeneration.

This is the reformed/calvie/ tulip theory safe place. When backed into the corner with truth.....Change the meaning of regeneration/spiritual life/salvation/eternal life.

 

[HeIsHere]

If you truly understood how God's precious grace literally transforms His people's hearts, minds and souls you could never ever make that kind of statement because grace turns God's people into worshipful, God-fearing, humble people who are always filled with gratitude and praise for what He has done FOR us and, yes...TO us!

Conversely, it you FWers who think you're super special because you, evidently, possess powers that God doesn't even have -- such as change his own immutable holy nature; yet, you guys think the power of your own "freewill" changed your immutable evil nature!

Believing the Good News does not require a change in nature and no where does scripture teach a person can only respond negatively to the Good News unless uniquely, divinely and particularly regenerated by God first.

Nowhere does scripture place regeneration prior to belief if correct hermeneutics is followed consistently.

 

[HeIsHere]

This is the reformed/calvie/ tulip theory safe place. When backed into the corner with truth.....Change the meaning of regeneration/spiritual life/salvation/eternal life.

Or state >>> "You do not understand Reformed doctrine!!"

 

[Kroogz]

Or state >>> "You do not understand Reformed doctrine!!"

The Irony?

The folks stuck in reformed theory don't understand it. If they truly understood it and the ultimate ramifications.....They wouldn't touch it with a 10 meter cattle prod.

 

[cv5]

Or state >>> "You do not understand Reformed doctrine!!"

Yea @Cameron143 is notorious for trotting out that line ....

 

[Genez]

Only to arrogant mockers who pride themselves as being able to understand the supernatural works of God!

Prov 20:24
24 A man's steps are directed by the LORD.
How then can anyone understand his own way?
Niv

May I lick your boots, please?

 

[Cameron143]

Yea @Cameron143 is notorious for trotting out that line ....

RF.

 

[sawdust]

Actually, I'd rather ask the very Embodiment of the New Covenant -- you know the Last Adam who is everything the first was not, which is the reason the two are always contrasted in scripture. So, yes, the gift of spiritual life in this New Covenant economy is irrevocable; for ALL the promises of God are YES in Christ -- not yes and no, not maybe. It's a done deal.

Once again you are off track.

What I said had nothing to do with the possibility of losing spiritual life, everything to do with believing God's word as true. Are you forced to believe God's word is true or not? If not, which is what you claim, then you are free to not believe as equally as you can believe (or you are not free at all). Adam was spiritually alive just as we are and he knew God, spoke with Him face to face (that's more than you and I have done) and was free in every sense of the word (no corruption to lead him astray) yet still he chose to not believe.

Unless you are audacious enough to believe that everyone who disagrees with you does not belong to God, you can be wrong as much as you can be right. If what I have said to you in our discussions is right? You have effectively rejected God's word, for like you, I base what I say on the word of God. Being spiritually alive doesn't give you or me, or anyone here, the right to infallibility.

God promises to finish what He started, that means our salvation is absolutely guaranteed. What He doesn't promise is to reward us for the errors we make along the way and I guarantee you, one side in this debate is right or both sides are wrong.

 

[cv5]

Actually, I'd rather ask the very Embodiment of the New Covenant -- you know the Last Adam who is everything the first was not, which is the reason the two are always contrasted in scripture.

Adam.....federal head........."side".....willingly dies for his sinful bride
Jesus..... Federal Head........"side"...... willingly dies for His sinful bride

Oh sure. No similarly here....

Pro tip: the ONLY WAY that you are going to plunge a speaker into the side of Jesus is if He allows it. Of His express free will.

 

[lrs68]

Thanks for you confessing that you aren't a disciple of Christ. It appears you're traveling on broad path that leads to destruction. Who is your Master since it isn't Christ? Satan?

See how you have completely avoided the topic we're discussing. You seriously talk in circles and truly have nothing but what other people have said to say for yourself.

 

[Rufus]

Who are you trying to impress? Yourself?

The wise and biblically literate are watching your antics with a mixture of dismay and revulsion.

Just to let you know.

Of which you are neither, Mr. Self-proclaimed bible expert.

 

[Rufus]

See how you have completely avoided the topic we're discussing. You seriously talk in circles and truly have nothing but what other people have said to say for yourself.

I took YOUR logic to its only logical conclusion. When did Christ appoint YOU as a disciple? Give me chapter and verse. Look how you avoided my objection to your absurd hermeneutics! You didn't answer me re Jn 15:17! How can this text possibly apply to YOU since Jesus was only speaking to his elite, super-duper, special hand-picked disciples?

 

[Rufus]

Once again you are off track.

What I said had nothing to do with the possibility of losing spiritual life, everything to do with believing God's word as true. Are you forced to believe God's word is true or not? If not, which is what you claim, then you are free to not believe as equally as you can believe (or you are not free at all). Adam was spiritually alive just as we are and he knew God, spoke with Him face to face (that's more than you and I have done) and was free in every sense of the word (no corruption to lead him astray) yet still he chose to not believe.

Unless you are audacious enough to believe that everyone who disagrees with you does not belong to God, you can be wrong as much as you can be right. If what I have said to you in our discussions is right? You have effectively rejected God's word, for like you, I base what I say on the word of God. Being spiritually alive doesn't give you or me, or anyone here, the right to infallibility.

God promises to finish what He started, that means our salvation is absolutely guaranteed. What He doesn't promise is to reward us for the errors we make along the way and I guarantee you, one side in this debate is right or both sides are wrong.

And since Adam did all that when he was in an innocent, "very good" state, how much worse off are his progeny who now how to fight their evil sin nature, the world and the devil? There is no one good (let alone "very good"), save for God -- which means all the sons of men come into this world with evil hearts.

Having eternal life graciously imparted to one's soul is a prerequisite to understanding scripture rightly -- something you can never seem to do.