Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

Yes.
The natural mind has a will of its own because the things of God are foolishness to it.
Only when God intervenes does Salvation make sense.

The tyrannical effect that God disrupts with salvation grace is to have the Holy Spirit
clamp down the will of the flesh to allow the soul who was made free from the flesh, to make a choice.

God does not save the body!
God saves only the soul who believed when grace made it possible.

 

[cv5]

It is easy for them to tells us what they believe.
They just repeat what they were told in their Calvinistic churches.

But, they begin squeezing very hard to get out why they believe what they do.

They are suffering from spiritual constipation.

Properly digested theology has the needed substance to keep things moving along smoothly when explaining it.
Those not able to be understanding it?
They react....
React and mistakenly accuse the other of being smug and self satisfied.
When actually it is called... 'having contentment.'

Contentment comes after having been well taught, and being able to know with understanding what one believes.

Pretty much yes...
Endless rinse and repeat of dogma, and continuously resurrecting long decreased straw men. Then comes the tirades for the detractors.

In fact @Magenta just launched into her standard "pelagian heretics" bitter diatribe against any who would defy the Calvinist tropes. Again.

Seems like a doom-loop vortex the unwary are sucked into and can't escape. Glad I'm on the outside looking in I have to tell you.

 

[cv5]

Which is what we have been saying but the difference in the argument is how much does God have to do by grace for a man to see the light? That's the question.

This natural man "receiveth not".
Volitional denial of that which is volitionally offered.

Yep two distinct wills interacting here....

 

[cv5]

Even though Eve was tempted and gave in yes she was in free will. Adam has a choice and gave in. Free will. Even in choosing faith to live by or not. Free will. I see free will as choice. We make a choice. We are influenced by demons yes. We are led by the holy Spirit yes. But we have choices. The only thing I have a hard time believing with but Indo believe it..is when we get saved and have faith.a.lot of scripture says by Jesus ' No one can come to me unless the father draws him. We don't come unless it's a divine intervention from God. Faith and grace are gifts. That's the only thing I don't believe free will exists. If I'm wrong someone let me have it. I like to know more and grow in truth.

This might help you out....

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5595185

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5595405

 

[Magenta]

Pretty sure that contentment comes when the Lord is one's Shepherd and one does not want...Psalm 23:1.

Psalm 23 v 1 The Lord is my shepherd I shall not want.

 

[lrs68]

Were his "His Disciples" a part of Christ's Body? If so, then by extension, Jesus was addressing all in his Body. Your lame objection seeks to divide the Body of Christ!

Not on this occasion because they were called at a specific time for a specific purpose. You twisting Biblical meaning is not what Jesus was talking about when He was addressing only the 12.

 

[sawdust]

This natural man "receiveth not".
Volitional denial of that which is volitionally offered.

Yep two distinct wills interacting here....

The irony is the Spirit is in the world convincing it of right, wrong and judgement but none of us can receive it, we're all blind as bats so am wondering why is God wasting His time? If all He has to do is regenerate a person and they automatically believe, why not zap everyone and be done with it? Afterall, they argue they are no different than the one who goes to hell so why is God wasting His time and effort especially when He doesn't like death to begin with. He could save Himself a whole host of heartbreak. That's right, I forgot he hates those who he created for destruction, so no loss there. What a strange god who loves some and hates others but never reveals why, well, except it's their fault he hates them which was his sovereign choice to make them that way.

Round and round we go. Are you dizzy yet?

 

[lrs68]

Were you not foreknown, chosen, called, and justified? Or are you still part of the world and unable to receive the Spirit of truth?

I am Regenerated and filled with the Holy Ghost!

But I am not the audience chosen to fulfill the immediate spreading of the Gospel after the Ascension of Jesus.

 

[Doll]

The tyrannical effect that God disrupts with salvation grace is to have the Holy Spirit
clamp down the will of the flesh to allow the soul who was made free from the flesh, to make a choice.

God does not save the body!
God saves only the soul who believed when grace made it possible.

The soul given us by God,that which returns to God at our death, needs to be Saved?

The Holy Spirit lifts the hardening he put upon our mortal consciousness,the natural mind, so the Soul remembers its source.

Jacob Arminius founded Arminianism. And in so doing founded an unbiblical cult that holds to the natural mind as the seat of the soul and above God's own instruction regarding its fallen nature. And that makes it unable to understand the things of God.

Which is how Arminians are found to be unlearnable in the actual things of God.
Which is why they fixate on Jacobs adversary,John Calvin.

All must be Calvinism.
I guess God was one too?

After awhile it becomes a stupid and obstinate accusation as Biblical truth is ignored.
Because it cannot be understood by that mind. As Jesus said. As is of God and his doing.

God's Sovereignty, God's Predestination of all things according to his will and plan. Jesus one of many such teachings,as in Matthew 13.
Ephesians 1:11.

And yet, it is proof of God's words. They do not understand
because for them God's message isn't meant to be understood.

We who do know can't get mad at that.

It's God! Proving what he said is true and lives here by its example ("That's Calvinism!" ) of Matthew 13:11.

Acts 4:27-28
For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/Acts/4

 

[Genez]

This natural man "receiveth not".
Volitional denial of that which is volitionally offered.

Yep two distinct wills interacting here....

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:​

for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,​

because they are spiritually discerned."​

In context... the natural man does not receive spiritual teachings!

While the Gospel was designed to reach the natural man!
The Gospels were designed to appeal to the natural emotions and thinking of a man.

In contrast to the Gospels, teaching on the deity of the Trinity was not designed to reach the natural man.

Some have come to believe that the Gospel is a spiritual teaching, when in fact, it has been presented as having
great appeal (potentially) to the natural man's way of thinking and emotions.

What we seek to learn after regeneration is teachings to feed our new found heart.
The Gospels, in contrast. is for people to feed their need to find solace in their lives.

Its a fine line there

 

[Genez]

The soul given us by God,that which returns to God at our death, needs to be Saved?

Yes... needs to be delivered from the entrapment of the depraved flesh.

 

[Doll]

Yes... needs to be delivered from the entrapment of the depraved flesh.

The Soul,which is of and from God, was put in the flesh by God.

God lifts the hardening from the mind of natural man when he enters those for whom he intends his grace. And then that person understands the things of God. Because the separation from God is now removed. Because God's Spirit indwells the person.

 

[Rufus]

Even though Eve was tempted and gave in yes she was in free will. Adam has a choice and gave in. Free will. Even in choosing faith to live by or not. Free will. I see free will as choice. We make a choice. We are influenced by demons yes. We are led by the holy Spirit yes. But we have choices. The only thing I have a hard time believing with but Indo believe it..is when we get saved and have faith.a.lot of scripture says by Jesus ' No one can come to me unless the father draws him. We don't come unless it's a divine intervention from God. Faith and grace are gifts. That's the only thing I don't believe free will exists. If I'm wrong someone let me have it. I like to know more and grow in truth.

Hello there...and welcome to the thread. I have to make this quick so I'll just very briefly touch on a few of your points.

But the first thing I would like to impress upon you is that the whole "free will" argument is a huge satanic smokescreen because the really important issue which the bible focuses on is man's heart which is the seat of all four of our faculties (mind, will, emotions, conscience), and it's the desires of the human heart that drive our choices.

Secondly, yes, Adam & Eve (A&E) were created innocent and were not encumbered with with a sin nature or depraved heart; therefore, they truly had free will. But since the Fall none of their progeny have come into this world with a will that is not imprisoned or enslaved to sin.

Lastly, as you have correctly observed "Faith and grace are gifts". Very precious gifts that are given to God's chosen covenant people under the unilateral, unconditional New Covenant promises. Under this covenant God does for his elect what no man can do for himself: raise himself from his spiritual tomb and change his own nature. No one can change his own nature -- not even God Almighty himself. Yet, subscribers to Freewill Theology (FWT) would have us believe that man can do for himself precisely what God cannot do for himself; for both God's nature and human nature are immutable. Only God has the power to change our nature and heart. However, FWT has a very dismissive view of sin and, therefore, an equally low view of God

Gotta run. But again...welcome aboard. Hope your visit here is profitable for you.

 

[Genez]

Hello there...and welcome to the thread. I have to make this quick so I'll just very briefly touch on a few of your points.

But the first thing I would like to impress upon you is that the whole "free will" argument is a huge satanic smokescreen because the really important issue which the bible focuses on is man's heart which is the seat of all four of our faculties (mind, will, emotions, conscience), and it's the desires of the human heart that drive our choices.

Secondly, yes, Adam & Eve (A&E) were created innocent and were not encumbered with with a sin nature or depraved heart; therefore, they truly had free will. But since the Fall none of their progeny have come into this world with a will that is not imprisoned or enslaved to sin.

Lastly, as you have correctly observed "Faith and grace are gifts". Very precious gifts that are given to God's chosen covenant people under the unilateral, unconditional New Covenant promises. Under this covenant God does for his elect what no man can do for himself: raise himself from his spiritual tomb and change his own nature. No one can change his own nature -- not even God Almighty himself. Yet, subscribers to Freewill Theology (FWT) would have us believe that man can do for himself precisely what God cannot do for himself; for both God's nature and human nature are immutable. Only God has the power to change our nature and heart. However, FWT has a very dismissive view of sin and, therefore, an equally low view of God

Gotta run. But again...welcome aboard. Hope your visit here is profitable for you.

If the person dies, and his body with the sin nature ceases to rule over his soul?

Will that soul still think the same way as it had while he was entrapped by the flesh?

 

[Doll]

Which describes your lame response perfectly. It would probably take a convoy of septic tank pumpers just to remove half the garbage in your attic.

Don't plumb to their depths. That's why they're goading you. They want you to act like they do so to prove you don't know the confidence in Christ's message so to not fall for that.

 

[Doll]

Nonsense! Give me one instance in scripture where God kept anyone out of heaven who wanted to be there with Him. Judas is a great example. Judas' eternal destiny was determined by God in eternity, yet Judas, who was the immediate cause of his own demise, willingly complied with God's eternal decree. I don't see anywhere in scripture where Judas complained about not being given a fair shake, or about how the devil made him do it, or God made him do it! Quite the opposite! Judas owned his sin, guilt and shame.

Judas was part of God's plan. He left the upper room because Jesus told him to go and do what he must do.

 

[BillyBob]

Yes but Jesus was only talking to His Disciples. I understand that you want to interject yourself into the Bible but most of the time God ain't talking to you and what we read is dealing with the immediate moment at hand.

If He is not talking to us, why bother putting it in the Scripture?

 

[cv5]

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:​

for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,​

because they are spiritually discerned."​

In context... the natural man does not receive spiritual teachings!

While the Gospel was designed to reach the natural man!
The Gospels were designed to appeal to the natural emotions and thinking of a man.

In contrast to the Gospels, teaching on the deity of the Trinity was not designed to reach the natural man.

Some have come to believe that the Gospel is a spiritual teaching, when in fact, it has been presented as having
great appeal (potentially) to the natural man's way of thinking and emotions.

What we seek to learn after regeneration is teachings to feed our new found heart.
The Gospels, in contrast. is for people to feed their need to find solace in their lives.

Its a fine line there

In context:
These spiritual truths would certainly have been understood IF they were received.

Such as those who did receive of verse 12.

But you must understand the specific Greek term for receive. Afterwards the correct interpretation is sure.

 

[Doll]

Since those in the flesh do not have the Spirit, there is nothing to restrain sinners' pride. The most "moral" human beings on the planet (from a horizontal perspective) live in sin 24/7, since they neither love God or believe Him. Those who don't love God are accursed. And those who have no faith cannot possibly please God. Hell will be loaded with "morally good" but spiritually DEAD people, since God is not the God of the dead!

You might find this worth reading. Please let me know.
The Bible Doesn’t Teach a “Sin Nature”

 

[Genez]

In context:
These spiritual truths would certainly have been understood IF they were received.

Such as those who did receive of verse 12.

But you must understand the specific Greek term for receive. Afterwards the correct interpretation is sure.

Could you please give the meaning for its specific use?