Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Rufus said:
Yeah...now you're catching on. Just like Jesus would always take aside his own disciples and explain his parables to them, while leaving the rest in the dark.
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So that later the disciples could later on take all those people and teach them what the Lord showed them first.

Like a student attending medical school must first learn his lessons and practice in a classroom before he could attend to the sick who live outside of the class.
 
cv5 said:
[1Jo 5:8 NKJV] 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

The drawing and call have never ceased on this earth since the fall. Unless you believe that the omnipresent Holy Ghost somehow vacated the universe. Which of course is .... ludicrous and impossible.
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FYI @Doll , 1 John 5 intentionally concatenates with Deut 17:6 "three witnesses", Rev 11 "two witnesses", Zech 4. "two witnesses"....

And OUR "two witnesses" components of OUR proclamation (spirit and body, warning and lifestyle), proving of course substance dualism.

I wonder, have any super-determinist encountered these startling principles in their Bible study.....:unsure: ?
Or is it mostly dogmatic repetition?
 
Genez said:
God is not worried about it, that they make him look like an agent of Satan.

Revenge will be His when the time is right.
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You FWers are so duplicitous! You're unhappy with efficacious grace because God would be forcing his holy, perfect will down sinners' vile gullets; and you're just as unhappy when God leaves sinners to their own evil devices giving them free reign over their own lives to do as they please. But you're so self-deceived, you can't see your own hypocrisy.
 
Genez said:
So that later the disciples could later on take all those people and teach them what the Lord showed them first.

Like a student attending medical school must first learn his lessons and practice in a classroom before he could attend to the sick who live outside of the class.
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So, what was the Great Physician's excuse for keeping people in the dark? Did he need more medical training, too?
 
Rufus said:
You FWers are so duplicitous! You're unhappy with efficacious grace because God would be forcing his holy, perfect will down sinners' vile gullets; and you're just as unhappy when God leaves sinners to their own evil devices giving them free reign over their own lives to do as they please. But you're so self-deceived, you can't see your own hypocrisy.
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I already explained to you more than several times, how Grace frees up the soul,
by suppressing the tyranny of the depraved flesh over our souls.

Should I keep trying?

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,​
but whoever hates correction is stupid. ​
​
Proverbs 12:1
 
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Rufus said:
Yeah...now you're catching on. Just like Jesus would always take aside his own disciples and explain his parables to them, while leaving the rest in the dark.
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Yea @Rufus , you must understand that those He taught intensively CHOSE to remain at His feet to TRULY know.....

And.....DID NOT DROP OUT OR FLUNK THE COURSE as He was teaching as so many others CHOSE to do.

Do you really need me to provide you with relevant proof texts? I mean if you choose to resist and deny this obvious Biblical reality, then why should I waste time on a flunky dropout?
 
Rufus said:
So, what was the Great Physician's excuse for keeping people in the dark? Did he need more medical training, too?
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According to your "sovereignty" schtick, it is God who is the end cause for people going to Hell.
They had no say in it.

For if he (as you claim) makes the totally depraved to believe?
Why then, are some more totally depraved than others?
 
Genez said:
I said nothing about you succeeding.

You are doing a lousy job.

I use you as a soundboard.
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Yup. Basically what I do with the flunkies and dropouts. They still serve a purpose.

They didn't make the cut.....but others might in the course of dialogue.
 
Genez said:
I already explained to you more than several times, how Grace frees up the soul,
by suppressing the tyranny of the depraved flesh over our souls.

Should I keep trying?

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,​
but whoever hates correction is stupid. ​
​
Proverbs 12:1
Click to expand...

But it only "frees up" the souls of God's humble, covenant people. Saving Grace is not given to every soul on the planet. It's only given to the people God has loved in eternity, i.e. God-fearers, believers, the righteous and lovers of God and His Son.

And for your info, men hate godly knowledge because there's no fear of God in their eyes.
 
BillyBob said:
Exactly! Why would He base His decisions on man in any way? If He did so, we would not be saved by Grace. . .
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He told you why in the part of the post you omitted.

God Himself has sovereignly declared it to be so.

Choose you this day ...

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ ...

Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God ...

If you have an ear ...

He calls us to give an account of ourselves and therefore enables us to do just that by means of His grace giving us the freedom that is needed to do the very thing He calls us to do. He gives us just enough freedom to hang ourselves, if we don't hang it is because of His mercy in declaring He saves those who believe. :)
 
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Rufus said:
But in FWT it never effectuates salvation, since man's "freewill" does.
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Wrong again ... I expect nothing less from you.

I believe it will rain today. Do you think my believing is what makes it rain? In the same way my believing Christ is Saviour of the world did not save me, God's grace did.

So sad how you have the capacity to not understand the most basic of things. I have some ear drops to help clean out the wax I can pass on to you. ;) :LOL:
 
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sawdust said:
He told you why in the part of the post you omitted.

God Himself has sovereignly declared it to be so.

Choose you this day ...

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ ...

Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God ...

If you have an ear ...

He calls us to give an account of ourselves and therefore enables us to do just that by means of His grace giving us the freedom that is needed to do the very thing He calls us to do. He gives us just enough freedom to hang ourselves, if we don't hang it is because of His mercy in declaring He saves those who believe. :)
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I agree that we must believe. And the very reason that we actually believe is because it is gifted to us through being renewed and drawn to Christ.
So when a new Christian asks what must I do, you can tell them “NOTHING”, Christ has already done it.
 
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Rufus said:
But it only "frees up" the souls of God's humble, covenant people. Saving Grace is not given to every soul on the planet. It's only given to the people God has loved in eternity, i.e. God-fearers, believers, the righteous and lovers of God and His Son.

And for your info, men hate godly knowledge because there's no fear of God in their eyes.
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How in the world does somebody love God, fear God, and live righteously before they were ever born, before their conscious existence, before any choice, action or decisions were ever made?
And what's worse, how in the world are these unborn souls in a "covenant" that they cannot possibly know of nor have they willingly entered?

I would ask you to explain, but why would I choose to waste time and energy stoking coal on this bizarre determinist dogma crazy train?
 
sawdust said:
He told you why in the part of the post you omitted.

God Himself has sovereignly declared it to be so.

Choose you this day ...

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ ...

Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God ...

If you have an ear ...

He calls us to give an account of ourselves and therefore enables us to do just that by means of His grace giving us the freedom that is needed to do the very thing He calls us to do. He gives us just enough freedom to hang ourselves, if we don't hang it is because of His mercy in declaring He saves those who believe. :)
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Replace "freedom" with "opportunity" and we are good to go.

We are free to choose by God's design. God provides the opportunity for salvation in His Son by grace.

Then, and only then, are justice and mercy satisfied.
 
BillyBob said:
I agree that we must believe. And the very reason that we actually believe is because it is gifted to us through being renewed and drawn to Christ.
So when a new Christian asks what must I do, you can tell them “NOTHING”, Christ has already done it.
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By the mechanism of the hallowed "pre-birth sovereign lottery". Right?
 
cv5 said:
Replace "freedom" with "opportunity" and we are good to go.

We are free to choose by God's design. God provides the opportunity for salvation in His Son by grace.

Then, and only then, are justice and mercy satisfied.
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There are no opportunities without freedom.
 
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