Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

I think if Jonah did not die in the belly of the great fish this congruency would not appear in scripture.

“For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” Matthew 12:40

Jesus died on the cross and was buried for three days. We know this to be true.

If Jonah was not dead in the belly of the great fish,and as you rightly observe, he would not have offered up that prayer.

Also,if Jonah wasn't dead,then the Matthew 12:40 doesn't make sense.
Because if Jonah wasn't dead those three days,Jesus wasn't either.

Don't let them fool you. This whole rabbit trail about Jonah came from the same post insisting Adam physically
died in the making of Eve, Abraham physically died in the making of a covenant with God, and Jonah was sleeping
while in the belly of a great fish. Sleep supposedly again denoting death even though sleep is nowhere in the text,
which these falsehood promoters refuse to acknowledge. And these falsehoods have been approved even after the
meanings of the words have been given from our trusty concordance, meanings which prove the intent of the
passages in question concerning both Adam and Abraham is to indicate sleep and not death.

 

[Genez]

Oh.....I don't think that there are too many palaces and posh estates where you live out there in Loserville little buddy. Mostly impoverished shacks and shanties by the railroad tracks is my guess.

Cool it, Moses.

But He turned and rebuked them, and said, ​

“You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.​

​

Luke 9:55​

.......

 

[cv5]

Don't let them fool you. This whole rabbit trail about Jonah came from the same post insisting Adam physically
died in the making of Eve, Abraham physically died in the making of a covenant with God, and Jonah was sleeping
while in the belly of a great fish. Sleep supposedly again denoting death even though sleep is nowhere in the text,
which these falsehood promoters refuse to acknowledge. And these falsehoods have been approved even after the
meanings of the words have been given from our trusty concordance, meanings which prove the intent of the
passages in question concerning both Adam and Abraham is to indicate sleep and not death.

@Doll can't be fooled if she's right. Right?
And she most certainly is right.

 

[cv5]

Cool it, Moses.

But He turned and rebuked them, and said, ​

“You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.​

​

Luke 9:55​

.......

Don't let my metaphorical language be cause for distress friend. I'm just trying to make a point and humorously. Let me break it down:

@Cameron143 is eating Mulligan's stew Bible studies when he could be having caviar and lobster tails. In fact both you and I served him caviar and lobster tails on a silver platter (several times) and he turned his nose up at them.

Too bad so sad.

 

[NSH]

I was reading my bible the other day when I thought of this thread. I was reading about how John the baptist was telling people to repent for the kingdom of God was near. Clearly, no one before Jesus could have been regenerated. Clearly they were all sinners and were being told to change their ways out of free choice. He was baptizing people in the river as a symbol that they were leveling themselves in preparation for Christ to be revealed.

So did they have a choice, or did God orchestrate John the baptist for show only? Were those who followed John misled thinking they had decided to embrace a better path, expecting the savior to come soon? When people heard the voice of John calling in the wilderness and they came near and softened themselves and stopped doing evil, was this not free choice? Clearly John had a lot of followers and it was going quite well for his repentance movement.

 

[cv5]

Hey little buddy! Is this what you have learned through Chronister's teaching? Too bad, so sad. . . . . .

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness,"

-Oscar Wilde

 

[Genez]

Don't let my metaphorical language be cause for distress friend. I'm just trying to make a point and humorously. Let me break it down:

@Cameron143 is eating Mulligan's stew Bible studies when he could be having caviar and lobster tails. In fact both you and I served him caviar and lobster tails on a silver platter (several times) and he turned his nose up at them.

Too bad so sad.

Understood.

Still..... leave them to be without excuse.
Right now, they have one.
For they see you just as bad off as they are.

​

Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with ​

blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing." 1 Peter 3:9​

Time to grow some more, perhaps?

 

[cv5]

Understood.

Still..... leave them to be without excuse.
Right now, they have one.
For they see you just as bad off as they are.

​

Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with ​

blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing." 1 Peter 3:9​

Time to grow some more, perhaps?

Humor is not an insult. Call it a gentle rejoinder.

 

[Magenta]

I was reading my bible the other day when I thought of this thread. I was reading about how John the baptist was telling people to repent for the kingdom of God was near. Clearly, no one before Jesus could have been regenerated. Clearly they were all sinners and were being told to change their ways out of free choice. He was baptizing people in the river as a symbol that they were leveling themselves in preparation for Christ to be revealed.

So did they have a choice, or did God orchestrate John the baptist for show only? Were those who followed John misled thinking they had decided to embrace a better path, expecting the savior to come soon? When people heard the voice of John calling in the wilderness and they came near and softened themselves and stopped doing evil, this not free choice? Clearly John had a lot of followers and it was going quite well for his repentance movement.

Hello NSH... It is not anywhere stated in Scripture that man was created with a will that is free. Man was created good and he disobeyed God, which God knew man was going to do. Man was then enslaved to sin. The real issue is what Scripture says of the natural, unregenerated man = he is a slave to sin, is at enmity with God, a lover of darkness and defined as darkness itself, full of evil, opposed to the spiritual things of God, refusing to come into the light, does not seek for God, cannot come to God on his own, hostile to/at enmity with God and incapable of obeying and/or submitting to God, nothing good dwells in his flesh which serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. He is blinded by the god of this world and the gospel is foolishness to him, as he can neither receive nor comprehend the spiritual things of God which are discerned only through the Spirit. He has an incurably wicked heart which needs replacing and people essentially claim this unregenerated man is able to believe with that God-hating heart. Those who promote free will essentially reject what is said of the natural man and instead ascribe to him qualities and characteristics and abilities that only the regenerated spiritually alive man is capable of. They claim a lot of things that do not align with Scripture, such as: everyone hears, the gospel is not hid, man is not blind to the truth, man is not such a bad guy and can as a bad tree produce the good fruit of faith (since none are good, no not one according to Scripture, but FWers mock, reject, contradict, and deny such Scriptural truths). There are a lot of Pelagian heretics here. We have also been told faith is not a gift from God even though Scripture says all good things come from God. Some also conflate being spiritually dead with being physically dead but then are dishonest about doing so even though they repeatedly tell those they disagree with on this issue to go preach in cemeteries. They have even told us that the gospel is not a spiritual matter, and 1 Cor 2:14 is a favourite verse of theirs to rewrite.

The free will camp assumes, with no supporting text and contrary to many verses that evidence the opposite, that the man of flesh is free to choose, and will believe, that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, and to which he is inherently opposed with his uncircumcised heart of stone. There is simply no getting around the fact that this is the core of their belief, and it flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches about the natural man who is a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light, blinded to truth and under the power and influence of Satan: he serves the law of sin which brings forth fruit unto death, not life. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, his incurably wicked heart cannot be changed. He hates God, rejects the light, and hears the gospel message as foolishness. Praise the Lord if He has set you free![/QUOTE]

 

[Cameron143]

Please realize that my comments Re: @Cameron143 's living status and diet are metaphorical and idiomatic and nature. In terms of biblical literacy, understanding and sound doctrine, he appears to be a homeless beggar.

In worldly terms, he might have a mansion and a yacht who knows.

RF.

 

[Cameron143]

Don't let my metaphorical language be cause for distress friend. I'm just trying to make a point and humorously. Let me break it down:

@Cameron143 is eating Mulligan's stew Bible studies when he could be having caviar and lobster tails. In fact both you and I served him caviar and lobster tails on a silver platter (several times) and he turned his nose up at them.

Too bad so sad.

RF.

 

[Magenta]

RF.

When Scripture speaks of the meat of God's Word I very much doubt it means caviar and lobster tails.

Since in fact these imagined "delicacies" are among unclean foods.

 

[Genez]

Humor is not an insult. Call it a gentle rejoinder.

It did not come across that way.
Someone just looking through the forum would not get that impression.

We need to use an emoticon to convey what was needed then.
Because I even began to wonder what happened to you.

 

[NSH]

Hello NSH... It is not anywhere stated in Scripture that man was created with a will that is free. Man was created good and he disobeyed God, which God knew man was going to do. Man was then enslaved to sin. The real issue is what Scripture says of the natural, unregenerated man = he is a slave to sin, is at enmity with God, a lover of darkness and defined as darkness itself, full of evil, opposed to the spiritual things of God, refusing to come into the light, does not seek for God, cannot come to God on his own, hostile to/at enmity with God and incapable of obeying and/or submitting to God, nothing good dwells in his flesh which serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. He is blinded by the god of this world and the gospel is foolishness to him, as he can neither receive nor comprehend the spiritual things of God which are discerned only through the Spirit. He has an incurably wicked heart which needs replacing and people essentially claim this unregenerated man is able to believe with that God-hating heart. Those who promote free will essentially reject what is said of the natural man and instead ascribe to him qualities and characteristics and abilities that only the regenerated spiritually alive man is capable of. They claim a lot of things that do not align with Scripture, such as: everyone hears, the gospel is not hid, man is not blind to the truth, man is not such a bad guy and can as a bad tree produce the good fruit of faith (since none are good, no not one according to Scripture, but FWers mock, reject, contradict, and deny such Scriptural truths). There are a lot of Pelagian heretics here. We have also been told faith is not a gift from God even though Scripture says all good things come from God. Some also conflate being spiritually dead with being physically dead but then are dishonest about doing so even though they repeatedly tell those they disagree with on this issue to go preach in cemeteries. They have even told us that the gospel is not a spiritual matter, and 1 Cor 2:14 is a favourite verse of theirs to rewrite.

The free will camp assumes, with no supporting text and contrary to many verses that evidence the opposite, that the man of flesh is free to choose, and will believe, that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, and to which he is inherently opposed with his uncircumcised heart of stone. There is simply no getting around the fact that this is the core of their belief, and it flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches about the natural man who is a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light, blinded to truth and under the power and influence of Satan: he serves the law of sin which brings forth fruit unto death, not life. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, his incurably wicked heart cannot be changed. He hates God, rejects the light, and hears the gospel message as foolishness. Praise the Lord if He has set you free!

[/QUOTE]
Why was John asking people to repent if they were not free to do so? That is my point: this is a scripture that SHOWS we have free will.

Before Jesus had died on the cross, he told people to go and sin no more. These were not people regenerated in the Holy spirit, for the spirit had not been given. His blood had not been shed, yet Jesus expected them to freely choose to stop sinning.

How can you say that scripture does not express free will, when Jesus himself asked people to do other feats of the will, like selling all possessions and forsaking family for Him?

 

[Cameron143]

When Scripture speaks of the meat of God's Word I very much doubt it means caviar and lobster tails.

Since in fact these imagined "delicacies" are among unclean foods.

It's amazing to me that those who profess to know the most about Jesus act the least like Him. One would think it would be the other way around.

 

[Genez]

Since in fact these imagined "delicacies" are among unclean foods.

Are you going Seventh-day Adventist on us now?

1 Timothy 4:4

For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving."​

Just to make it known to those who may abuse that verse.
That does not include junk food.
For the Greek indicates that all things created (the actual things God created) are good.
Junk food is a distortion of the actual thing God created for food.

IMHO ....

 

[NSH]

Here are several verses that illustrate God expects us to use free will and has created and ordered his creation to give us free will:

Deuteronomy 30:19-20

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them."

This passage explicitly urges people to "choose life," presenting options between blessing and curse, which underscores human agency in deciding to follow God.

Joshua 24:15

"And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

Here, Joshua calls the people to actively "choose" whom to serve, highlighting the freedom to align with God or other influences.

John 7:17

"If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority."

Jesus affirms that individuals can align their "will" with God's, implying the ability to choose obedience as a pathway to discernment.


Revelation 3:20

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me."

Jesus portrays himself as waiting for a response, where hearing and "opening the door" represent a personal choice to invite him into one's life.


Romans 10:9-10

"Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

Salvation is tied to personal acts of confession and belief, which are presented as deliberate choices of the heart and mouth.

 

[Genez]

Why was John asking people to repent if they were not free to do so? That is my point: this is a scripture that SHOWS we have free will.

Before Jesus had died on the cross, he told people to go and sin no more. These were not people regenerated in the Holy spirit, for the spirit had not been given. His blood had not been shed, yet Jesus expected them to freely choose to stop sinning.[/QUOTE]

Moses was regenerated. But, he did not have the permanently indwelling Holy Spirit.

Regeneration restores to us the human spirit.
The human spirit that makes us able to comprehend God's Word.

For the Church, the indwelling Holy Spirit exceeds that ability, and makes us able to be living (not just to comprehend) God's Word.

That is why we are told to walk in the Spirit.

Grace and peace ..........

 

[cv5]

It did not come across that way.
Someone just looking through the forum would not get that impression.

We need to use an emoticon to convey what was needed then.
Because I even began to wonder what happened to you.

Ok thanks for the feedback buddy. Perhaps my dry subtle humor is a bit too salty for some palates.

 

[cv5]

Here are several verses that illustrate God expects us to use free will and has created and ordered his creation to give us free will:

Deuteronomy 30:19-20

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them."

This passage explicitly urges people to "choose life," presenting options between blessing and curse, which underscores human agency in deciding to follow God.

Joshua 24:15

"And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

Here, Joshua calls the people to actively "choose" whom to serve, highlighting the freedom to align with God or other influences.

John 7:17

"If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority."

Jesus affirms that individuals can align their "will" with God's, implying the ability to choose obedience as a pathway to discernment.


Revelation 3:20

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me."

Jesus portrays himself as waiting for a response, where hearing and "opening the door" represent a personal choice to invite him into one's life.


Romans 10:9-10

"Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

Salvation is tied to personal acts of confession and belief, which are presented as deliberate choices of the heart and mouth.

Well spoken. And there are thousands upon thousands of biblical passages and scenarios to back up what you posted .