Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

And what you've wrote should be the end of it, but its not.
You know why it's not the end of it.
The main reason is that a person not having any free will goes against many people beliefs of certain doctrines.

That's what's going on here sir.

A person not having any free will in there unsaved condition demolishes quite a few doctrines that many people have come to live by, and some very popular. Ones to.

That's what's going on,

The free will camp assumes, with no supporting text and contrary to many verses that evidence the opposite, that the man of flesh is free to choose, and will believe, that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, and to which he is inherently opposed with his uncircumcised heart of stone. There is simply no getting around the fact that this is the core of their belief, and it flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches about the natural man who is a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light, blinded to truth and under the power and influence of Satan: he serves the law of sin which brings forth fruit unto death, not life. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, his incurably wicked heart cannot be changed. He hates God, rejects the light, and hears the gospel message as foolishness. Praise the Lord if He has set you free!

 

[Rufus]

The brilliance and stupendous spiritual and intellectual prowess and insights of Adam are off the charts.
He resisted the full brunt of Satan's attacks time and time again......and was not deceived. Never deceived. Ever.
Which of course is an attribute that MADE HIM A TYPE OF CHRIST. Among others.

1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

The archangel Michael on the other hand demurred when faced with Satan's seductive lies......

Jde 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

I wager that most men today would fall like dominoes under the same kind of assault.
And BTW, Judas-Satan likely had ALL of the disciples "on his side" when he dared to rebuke the Lord here. Easy peasy.

[Jhn 12:4 KJV]
Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], which should betray him,

[Jhn 12:5 KJV]
Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?

Mat 26:8
But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?

Well...you finally have said something that we can agree upon: Adam, just like his father the Devil, was never deceived! So, in your world does that make the evil one a superhero also -- because he was never deceived from without -- only from within?

Also, if Adam was the spiritual genius and giant and superhero of the human race why would he have chosen to enter into Eve's sin when he clearly had two other sinless options open to him? Option One: Why didn't he prevent Eve from eating the fruit? Why didn't he protect his wife whom he supposedly loved so much? Why didn't he step in between the Serpent and Eve and make every effort to protect his wife by convincing her to forego eating? After all, one of the attributes of love is protection (1Cor 13:7).

Or Option Two: Failing option one, still left Adam with another far more noble solution: After Eve sinned, why didn't Adam call out to God and plead with Him to have mercy on Eve and beg God to take his life instead of hers? Would not this strategy have demonstrated what true biblical love looks like? (Rhetorical question!) Of course it would have. Didn't Jesus teach that no greater love has a man who lays down his life for his friends (Jn 15:13)? Yet, according to you Adam outsmarted Jesus by showing a superior way to love God, neighbor and wife. Sin was the only answer, according to you! I guess Eve wasn't such a good friend of Adam after all, was she?

But instead you glorify, exalt, honor and virtually worship the one man who literally was responsible for ruining the entire universe since his one sin accounts for all the misery, suffering, pain, sorrow, tears, hardships, chaos, confusion and death in this fallen world! And it's all downhill for you from this point on!

By glorifying and exalting Adam, you all but dismiss the devastating, destructive and addictive power of sin along with all its detrimental effects! You actually have given tacit approval to Adam's sin by clearly insisting that he had no other viable options open to him. And you justify his sin in the same way the wicked world would with its ungodly worldview of morality would: The end justifies the means! You glibly, shamelessly and recklessly set aside God's eternal absolute truth and trade that in for the ungodly and unbiblical worldview of Situational Ethics! You have clearly demonstrated your open disdain for God's absolute, eternal truth, preferring instead to read your carnal, demonic fantasies into biblical passages because you just cannot have God saving one of our parents because He'd be showing "favoritism". He would be unjust, unfair, arbitrary, etc., etc. So...your only option, in order to preserve your hell-hatched theories, is to lift Adam up as high and exalted as you can-- and represent him as being a good guy -- and not the bad guy that scripture throughout portrays him. (Your perverse theology reminds me a lot of how Judas sympathizers portray and defend the betrayer!)

If you don't repent and confess your ungodly worldview before you die, I pity you on Judgment Day!

 

[Jordon]

The free will camp assumes, with no supporting text and contrary to many verses that evidence the opposite, that the man of flesh is free to choose, and will believe, that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, and to which he is inherently opposed with his heart of stone. There is simply no getting around the fact that this is the core of their belief, and it flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches about the natural man who is a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light, blinded to truth and under the power and influence of Satan: he serves the law of sin which brings forth fruit unto death, not life. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, his incurably wicked heart hates God, and hears the gospel message as foolishness. Praise the Lord if He has set you free!

praise the lord another long day of madness is over

 

[posthuman]

Do yourself a favor and do a key word study! The key word is DROVE...and see how it's used in scripture. It's never used with reference to God's friends, saints, covenant people, God-fearers, etc.

Furthermore, if the ejection of THE MAN from the Garden was an act of God chastening "saint" Adam , then why wasn't Eve included in God's remarks in Gen 3:22-24? Didn't Eve sin? Didn't God also love her just as much as you think He did Adam? If so, why didn't God include Eve the sinner in the above text? Her absence is as conspicuous as Adam's absence in Gen 3:15 is. If fact, one could easily contrast A&E in the post-fall narrative. And this shouldn't come as a big surprise to anyone since the Adam is always contrasted with the Last Adam in scripture! Would you prefer being favorably compared to the Last Adam or consistently contrasted with Him? Or do you think that being contrasted with Christ is not a big deal?

so you think the first interaction of omnibenovelent God, whose lovingkindness is everlasting, is merciless hatred and condemnation?

interesting.
super glorious from your perspective, i bet.

and zero compatibility with the Biblical fact that Adam is a prefigure - not an antithesis - of Christ.

did you ever consider that maybe i'm elected and you're not, but were appointed to self deception?

no?

election only applies to you, huh.
veeeery shortsighted, neighbor.

 

[Rufus]

I wonder why you feel you need to come against me so strongly with all your false accusations and shamefully
graceless aggression simply because I caution people against following an apostate atheist, especially in light
of things Jesus said, which I have already posted to you but which you choose to ignore. But I do not expect the
truth from you on this matter, as you have already shown yourself to be a liar, and a repeat offender at that.

Pay this Doll gal no mind. We're witnessing the Birds of a Feather syndrome. She clearly has an affinity for apostasy, so she'll jump off a cliff for this atheistic apostate who has left the Faith. You should put her on iggy, Sis.

 

[Rufus]

Adam was not deceived by what ? Satan in the garden, well that contradicts scripture, because if Adam was not innocent why the life time punishment. And if he was not deceived by satan that means he watched his wife get deceived ?

So what you must be saying the. Is Adam was somewhere else in the garden when eve ate and then eve went to sin where where in the garden and gave him the fruit.

Or what else is it saying for Adam not to have been deceived, go on why do you think titus is saying he was not deceived ?

It's nuts because you say Adam ate the fruit so he could save his wife's life or something like that is he but deceiving himself there ?

If you read CV5 carefully, he made a huge point of Adam not being deceived, and equated that with him being a "type of Christ". Well...you had better consider the source of this buffoonery very carefully. Since Adam was not deceived by the Serpent and this make him a "type of Christ", then going by that "logic" (if I dare glorify his rationale with that term) Satan, too, must be a type of Christ because the devil before he sinned wasn't deceived either from without. So, now we have at least two created "superheros" in the universe.

 

[Blain]

And what you've wrote should be the end of it, but its not.
You know why it's not the end of it.
The main reason is that a person not having any free will goes against many people beliefs of certain doctrines.

That's what's going on here sir.

A person not having any free will in there unsaved condition demolishes quite a few doctrines that many people have come to live by, and some very popular. Ones to.

That's what's going on,

That is just it isn't it? it flies in the face of peoples doctrines and beliefs and so therefore it couldn't possibly be true could itt? Yet in people minds they are unwilling to admit they may be wrong and thus do not have a learning spirit they just want to be right

Even though the scriptures are pretty clear on this subject

 

[Rufus]

so you think the first interaction of omnibenovelent God, whose lovingkindness is everlasting, is merciless hatred and condemnation?

interesting.
super glorious from your perspective, i bet.

and zero compatibility with the Biblical fact that Adam is a prefigure - not an antithesis - of Christ.

did you ever consider that maybe i'm elected and you're not, but were appointed to self deception?

no?

election only applies to you, huh.
veeeery shortsighted, neighbor.

How about JUSTICE on God's part!? You talk as though God owed Adam salvation! And whether you know this or not, or can even begin to wrap your mind around what I'm about to say, you should ponder the idea that the flip side to God's love is his WRATH! But I suspect this concept might be a wee bit deep for you.

And, yes, Adam "prefigures" the Last Adam because he is a type of Christ by contrasts. So, yes, Adam was everything that Jesus Christ was not, is not and will never be!

 

[Rufus]

clearly Adam believed this:

John 11:25-26​

I AM the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. ​

​

his renaming of 'out of man' to 'life' at this moment indicates a tremendous intelligence, wisdom and faith.

Don't you know that hell is filled with tremendously intelligent people who were also chock full of worldly wisdom and ungodly faith?

 

[Genez]

'who was' isn't in the text.
it says she gave also to her husband with her.

the 'with her' refers to the state of having the fruit, not to his having been present while she was being deceived, and context implies he could not have been, else he would have been first in sin by doing nothing to prevent her from being deceived and from reaching out and taking the fruit.

God does not tell him, 'because you let this happen' - - He tells him, because he listened to her voice.

Careful...
Too much spin....

And, you'll end up without skin.

 

[Rufus]

You keep arguing from a ridiculous position.
And, we are supposed to get defensive, just because to appear to be attacking us?
Makes no sense.

You make no sense.

To the simple-minded my position would certainly appear to be ridiculous.l

 

[Jordon]

If you read CV5 carefully, he made a huge point of Adam not being deceived, and equated that with him being a "type of Christ". Well...you had better consider the source of this buffoonery very carefully. Since Adam was not deceived by the Serpent and this make him a "type of Christ", then going by that "logic" (if I dare glorify his rationale with that term) Satan, too, must be a type of Christ because the devil before he sinned wasn't deceived either from without. So, now we have at least two created "superheros" in the universe.

I think he lives in California where Dope is legal, he mentioned he lays down in good green grass.

That's the home grown stuff, that a lot of these mad lecturers live by, it's how the hippies live to, some of the mad professors smoke it to.

I think he has got a bit bit of mad proffessor about him

And some mad proffessing of faith to.

But go easy on him lol, he might go nuts

 

[Rufus]

He Adam was not decieved by Satan to which means he willfully sold his soul to the devil

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye,
and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her
husband, who was with her,

BINGO! Go to the head of the line.! Adam's sin emulated the sin of his spiritual father (the devil), proving once again that the apple never falls far from its tree. The devil, before he sinned, was also not deceived from without! So, we have like Father like son syndrome. In fact, I know I have written in the past about the various ways Adam was a type of Satan! When I find that post, I'll copy and paste it here.

 

[Magenta]

praise the lord another long day of madness is over

Do you live anywhere near London?

 

[Jordon]

Do you live anywhere near London?

no I'm living in Manchester, London is to way to expensive these days, I've only ever been there a few times

 

[Jordon]

BINGO! Go to the head of the line.! Adam's sin emulated the sin of his spiritual father (the devil), proving once again that the apple never falls far from its tree. The devil, before he sinned, was also not deceived from without! So, we have like Father like son syndrome. In fact, I know I have written in the past about the various ways Adam was a type of Satan! When I find that post, I'll copy and paste it here.

yep but God still put a hedge of protection over Adam and eve I believe.

 

[Rufus]

I think he lives in California where Dope is legal, he mentioned he lays down in good green grass.

That's the home grown stuff, that a lot of these mad lecturers live by, it's how the hippies live to, some of the mad professors smoke it to.

I think he has got a bit bit of mad proffessor about him

And some mad proffessing of faith to.

But go easy on him lol, he might go nuts

He's way beyond that already. He's totally off the rails spiritually.

 

[Rufus]

He Adam was not decieved by Satan to which means he willfully sold his soul to the devil

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye,
and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her
husband, who was with her,

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Adam became extremely jealous of Eve after she sinned because she had something he didn't: The Knowledge of Good and Evil. So, he decided to find out what it would be like to have that kind of knowledge that up until that point in time only God possessed. He wanted to see what she was seeing!

 

[Rufus]

I don't think the natural chemistry of the fruit had anything to do with it, either. The fact of the matter is that
God could have drawn a line in the sand and said, do not cross this line, and their crossing it would have been
a sinful act of disobedience which would have likely had the same outcome. Adam knew it was wrong to eat
of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but he did so anyways, and in that act of disobedience, he
knew he had in fact crossed the line. I believe Adam was conscious of losing God's covering, and in coming
to full awareness of this, saw himself as evil, and sought to cover his shame. God fashioned better coverings
for them, and promised the coming of One Whose sacrificial covering via the shedding of His righteous blood
would overcome the wickedness Satan had aspired to wreak on God's handiwork.

Yup, our mighty and powerful and all-wise, all super-intelligent superhero ran like a scared jackrabbit after he sinned. I kinda doubt he felt anywhere near how CV5 portrays him.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

you should ponder the idea that the flip side to God's love is his WRATH! But I suspect this concept might be a wee bit deep for you.

Have to agree:

Undiluted Wrath and Undiluted Grace!

Amen.