Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

And you don't believe that the new heart promised in the unilateral New Covenant is required in order to believe? Or for that matter that the Holy Spirit plays a crucial role in applying the Word to human hearts?

Half truths never = the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Yes, contrary to what Scripture explicitly articulates, they believe that flesh can please God and that a bad tree can bring forth the good fruit of faith, and they arrive at this belief by demolishing what Scripture says of the unregenerated man, because they would rather mock and scoff at what Scripture has to say of him than actually take it to heart or even see themselves for who and what they are reflected in the pages of Scripture... so they rewrite what they don't like, then pretend they have refuted the verses they love to contradict and deny.

Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge. They teach as doctrine the precepts of men.

 

[Magenta]

Ain't that the truth!? Studier did the same thing with Jer 13:23 several weeks ago because he didn't like the analogy or the rhetorical question in the text to which there is only one unequivocal answer. He so perverted the passage to make it into a metaphor whereby the Ethiopian and the leopard can learn to change themselves in the same way Israel supposed learned to do evil.

Romans 7 v 14, John 8 v 34, Jeremiah 13 v 23, Romans 3 v 10 ~ We know that the law is spiritual; but
I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.” Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Neither are you able to do good - you who are accustomed to doing evil. There is no one righteous, not even one.

 

[Rufus]

yep it's getting a bit silly

Lol I think the best thing is to talk about having some doggy biscuits as a source of being saved

And Meow Mix...just to keep it fair and balanced between cats and dogs.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Being spiritually dead doesn't mean that a person can't hear and hearken to the holy spirit.

 

[Magenta]

John 10 verses 27-28 My sheep hear My voice, I know them and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.

 

[rogerg]

Being spiritually dead doesn't mean that a person can't hear and hearken to the holy spirit.

That's exactly what it means. They have to be given spiritual life first.

 

[Magenta]

That's exactly what it means. They have to be given spiritual life first.

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

That's exactly what it means. They have to be given spiritual life first.

Spiritual life is the spirit, that wanders the earth seeking those who will hearken to its voice. Being spiritually dead means being separated from God. That doesn't mean he doesn't still speak to spiritually dead people. If what you say is true, then people are saved before they believe the gospel, which is just ridiculous. All who learn of the father through the holy spirit (before they are saved) come to Christ (who saves them)

 

[Jordon]

They do what they condemn.
God decreed that they will.

Why?

So God can show them that they agree with Him when He condemns them for their actions.
He has it all wrapped up!

Let them do wrong!
They will do themselves in, in the end!

Best jury against yourself, is yourself!
God arranges for us to judge ourselves, so there will be no never ending appeal trials.

........

Yep the idea that God lets people do wrong based on an idea that God handing somebody over to reprobate mind is one way of looking at, but it doesn't mean its right,

And saying God will let them do wrong until they realise what there doing is wrong, is also another way of looking at it.

But no God only helps a person to do right, and let's them do right, when there doing wrong they get a pricked conscience, then eventually it leads to a condemned conscience, it's where the prick gets deeper rooted into there conscience, so much so that people still resisting, shout out all sorts of unpleasant stuff as they fight it.

Nebuchadnezzar was a good example of this he also went barking with a pricked conscience, many do.

 

[HigherGospel]

It took one act of disobedience to produce spiritual death in Adam and Eve. Unlike them, we were already spiritually dead, but have been made spiritually alive in Christ. One act of disobedience doesn't change that. That's why I asked you to define what living in sin means.

OK, so your claim is we can live in sin and still be in right standing with the Lord.

That's false doctrine!


Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

OK, so your claim is we can live in sin and still be in right standing with the Lord.

That's false doctrine!


Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

You want to lecture rather than to define living in sin as I asked you to

 

[HigherGospel]

OK. You believe one sin is 'living in sin.
So then, how do you define "advocate"?

Only IF one confesses and forsakes their sin (including ones committed after having been born again) will they have mercy and this is not what I believe, it's what God said in His Word!

See.... Proverbs 28:13 and 1 John 1:9

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hebrews 10:28-31
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Godly sorrow is the stronger of the 2 references since it leads to "repentance to salvation not to be repented of"

 

[HigherGospel]

Great Man of God went Home to his Maker...enjoy Paradise Brother Voddie Baucham! We will worship God together one of these days..

Calvinism is false doctrine. Those teaching it go south not north

 

[HigherGospel]

You want to lecture rather than to define living in sin as I asked you to

Feel free to ignore what the Lord says in His Word. It's your call.

 

[rogerg]

Spiritual life is the spirit, that wanders the earth seeking those who will hearken to its voice. Being spiritually dead means being separated from God. That doesn't mean he doesn't still speak to spiritually dead people. If what you say is true, then people are saved before they believe the gospel, which is just ridiculous. All who learn of the father through the holy spirit (before they are saved) come to Christ (who saves them)

Yes, they are saved BEFORE they believe. Belief, in my understanding, comes AFTER and from salvation. Otherwise, salvation would be man's work not Christ's work as the Savior. Consider the following verse. It tells us that to know salvation, sins must first be forgiven.
If sins are first forgiven, then salvation occurred first too. Also consider the "his people". That knowledge is not given to everyone but only to His people

[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Also consider the following verses that until the mind is unblinded by God, it is impossible for a true understanding of the gospel to be obtained. Everyone unsaved is "lost" or they wouldn't be lost

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[HigherGospel]

Being spiritually dead doesn't mean that a person can't hear and hearken to the holy spirit.

That's the message satan had for Adam and Eve before the sinned against God.

God said they would die spiritually which is to be separated from God.

The devil said God lied and they would not die spiritually.

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

 

[BillyBob]

If what you say is true, then people are saved before they believe the gospel, which is just ridiculous. All who learn of the father through the holy spirit (before they are saved) come to Christ (who saves them)

A saved man is chosen by the Father and given to the Son. Once a man is made alive all is done.
Salvation is not by a choice made, but by a gift given. We do not come to Christ, we are placed there!

 

[HigherGospel]

You want to lecture rather than to define living in sin as I asked you to

IF.... IF.... we confess our sins (and forsake them) the Lord is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (see Proverbs 28:13 and 1 John 1:9)

Once a man is made alive all is done.

So it's all good then if that man wants to live in sin?

They still go to Heaven even if they live like the devil?

 

[Magenta]

Spiritual life is the spirit, that wanders the earth seeking those who will hearken to its voice. Being spiritually dead means being separated from God. That doesn't mean he doesn't still speak to spiritually dead people. If what you say is true, then people are saved before they believe the gospel, which is just ridiculous. All who learn of the father through the holy spirit (before they are saved) come to Christ (who saves them)

Jesus' words in John 6:45b and John 6:39b
We are back to this again. Who hears? Not everyone, and Jesus addressed this. Another thing people deny.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yes, they are saved BEFORE they believe. Belief, in my understanding, comes AFTER and from salvation. Otherwise, salvation would be man's work not Christ's work as the Savior.

So basically you are saying that a person is saved apart from faith