After you are saved and filled with the Holy Ghost this is when this happens according to Paul.
But remember the Holy Ghost wrote the Bible.
The Holy Ghost said we must Repent before being filled with the Holy Ghost.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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But remember the Holy Ghost wrote the Bible.
The Holy Ghost said we must Repent before being filled with the Holy Ghost.
When one exercises faith in Christ Jesus (the object of one's faith for salvation) and His offer of the gift of salvation then one is saved NOT proclaiming "Jesus is Lord" that is erroneous Lordship salvation.
Stating "Jesus is Lord" occurs again after a person has received the gift of salvation by faith.
Keep the order straight.
Except you have a person who cannot receive/accept the spiritual things of God receiving salvation.
And choosing to believe what his incurably wicked heart is opposed to.
And "deciding" to come into the light when Scripture says they will not.
Are you going to tell us salvation is not a spiritual thing of God?
Wasn't it you who said the gospel was not a spiritual matter? LOL
Like you have told us faith is not counted among the good things that come from God.
Your theology is sick and twisted when looked at logically.
How often you contradict and deny what is written is astounding.
Everyone hears you say. No, Jesus told us otherwise.
The gospel is not hid, you say. That is a falsehood according to Scripture truth also.
And you say God is unfair if He does the very thing Scripture shows Him doing ALL throughout Scripture.
Girl. Give your head a shake. You ought to stop blaspheming God, and siding with/defending other blasphemers.
Are you so confused you think the Titus verse proves your case? It does the opposite.
We are saved according to His mercy, amen.
I think you're confusing the "bot" joke discussion with the natural man/carnally minded believer discussion ... or maybe not ... as the "bot" joke reveals ... just sayin'
I understood the joke ... I understood that the "they" did not include you and your buddy(ies). As requested, I showed you where you and your buddy mocked other brothers and sisters in Christ ... you want to deny? fine by me ... btw ... yes, it is the Word of God that is a discerner between the thoughts and intents of the heart (Heb 4:12).
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God did create man with the ability to choose good or evil, to do that which was pleasing to Him, to make wise decisions. But you know, a strange thing happened along the way. It's referred to as the Fall of mankind!
Immediately after the fall we are told: Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Don't know about you, but that sounds pretty dire to me.! Continually means constant!
Seems like our only hope now is to be renewed through regeneration by the HS, to be made alive and enabled to love God as we should. That's Grace!
yep ... God is good ... hope/pray you have a blessed day ... or is it afternoon/evening where you are now ? ... if so, have a blessed afternoon and evening and sweet sleep ...
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Romans 7 v 14, John 8 v 34, Jeremiah 13 v 23, Romans 3 v 10 ~ We know that the law is spiritual; but
I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.” Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Neither are you able to do good - you who are accustomed to doing evil. There is no one righteous, not even one.
The gift of the Spirit does occur after salvation. The gift of the Spirit or the promise of the Father or the baptism with the Spirit is subsequent to salvation. It is a manifest display of the outpouring of the Spirit witnessed throughout the book of Acts. The indwelling of the Spirit is an inward nonexperiential operation of the Spirit by which one cries...Abba. And as shown in 1 Corinthians 12:3, the way in which one calls Jesus Lord.When one exercises faith in Christ Jesus (the object of one's faith for salvation) and His offer of the gift of salvation then one is saved NOT proclaiming "Jesus is Lord" that is erroneous Lordship salvation.
Stating "Jesus is Lord" occurs again after a person has received the gift of salvation by faith.
Keep the order straight.
Everyone pursues the unknown and the idea of God because it's how God created us. We may not believe or understand why we need God to pursue Him for the right thing like salvation but we pursue the idea something bigger than all of us and everything must exist.
Tribal Cultures, Asian Cultures, going back to the Egyptian Culture we see people always believed in some form of god. We even see people who believed in other gods eventually join the true God throughout the Tanakh like Rahab, Ruth, there's actually a list in every Scroll showing people seeking out Yahvew who were not Hebrew. So we know it's possible because we have the Old Testament to prove it.
The Fall just means you are born into sin not that you lost anything that allows you to seek God. Paul wrote in Acts we have that ability to this very day just the vast majority doesn't seek out God for salvation but rather if He exists.
Walking in the Spirit....
Calvinism does not keep believers from being with Christ.
It gives them an alternative place to go who do not want to be with Him, but want to say they are.
God will not be mocked.
Those who found themselves so entrenched by them, will find themselves coming out from them,
if they accept the Truth, that will make them free.
Regeneration is for the saved.
God does not regenerate you in order to save you.
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you
cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going.
So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” John 3:6-8
Spirit begets spirit when you are born again!
Calvinists? You got to stop and think.
Better to admit you are wrong now.
Then having to admit it when you find yourself standing before the Lord.
Something is very wrong with your teaching.
And, keep this in mind as an example of what we see.
Many Jehovah Witnesses think they are smarter than the rest of us.
That we are deceived!
It is that easy to do.
Chronister has deduced that the determinists imply (or outright declare) that God is the originator of evil, created evil, purposes evil, had evil in mind to begin with.
Which of course is false.
Jhn 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of G1537 his own: G2398 for he is a liar, and the father of it.
To whoever cares:
More on the so-translated “natural man” in 1Cor2:14:
“natural” is “psuchikos”
One of the things in exegesis is to understand words and writings from the times they are written. There is still ongoing work on exegeting Paul. Much more is being considered about his use of rhetoric and his interactions with the Greek world and the Hebrew world he was tasked to be integrating. As he states in Romans, his mission is faith-obedience among the nations on behalf of the name of Jesus Christ. Simply put, he’s to bring the Gentiles to faith-obedience to the Jewish Messiah.
When Paul uses the word “psuchikos” in 1Cor2:14 he’s interacting with a word that’s been used among the Greek Philosophers for nearly 600 years as best I can see from our lexical data. Through the centuries it became used to speak of men who we might call the “scholars” among the Greeks – philosophers, morally reflective citizens.
In 1Cor2:14 Paul is comparing and contrasting these psuchikos-Greek scholars first with the teleios-mature Christian 1Cor2:6 and the pneumatikos-spiritual Christian 1Cor2:15. Paul uses both of these words – teleios-mature and pneumatikos-spiritual – basically synonymously to speak of the spiritually mature Christian who he can speak advanced Christian doctrines to. He also contrasts pneumatikos-spiritual (and thus teleios-mature) to the nepios-infant-child Christian to whom he cannot yet speak to re: these advanced Christian doctrines 1Cor3.
Paul is drawing a contrast mainly between the Greek scholar and the mature-spiritual Christian who has the Spirit of God. The best of the Greek scholars does not welcome advanced Christian teaching because they think it’s nonsense. And they can’t know it because they don’t have God’s Spirit. I’ve already dealt with the grammatical structure of the language in these verses. The main issue is they think God’s wisdom is nonsense. They in their self and culturally inflated minds place their own wisdom above anything supposedly of the Jewish God. And this was also part of the problem – the cultural multitude of gods.
So, back to the issue on this and other threads on this forum re: the psuchikos-Greek scholar and the Gospel:
There are other Scriptures that are difficult to interpret in regard to deterministic vs. non-deterministic traditions. 1Cor2:14 IMO is simply not one of them.
More on the so-translated “natural man” in 1Cor2:14:
“natural” is “psuchikos”
One of the things in exegesis is to understand words and writings from the times they are written. There is still ongoing work on exegeting Paul. Much more is being considered about his use of rhetoric and his interactions with the Greek world and the Hebrew world he was tasked to be integrating. As he states in Romans, his mission is faith-obedience among the nations on behalf of the name of Jesus Christ. Simply put, he’s to bring the Gentiles to faith-obedience to the Jewish Messiah.
When Paul uses the word “psuchikos” in 1Cor2:14 he’s interacting with a word that’s been used among the Greek Philosophers for nearly 600 years as best I can see from our lexical data. Through the centuries it became used to speak of men who we might call the “scholars” among the Greeks – philosophers, morally reflective citizens.
In 1Cor2:14 Paul is comparing and contrasting these psuchikos-Greek scholars first with the teleios-mature Christian 1Cor2:6 and the pneumatikos-spiritual Christian 1Cor2:15. Paul uses both of these words – teleios-mature and pneumatikos-spiritual – basically synonymously to speak of the spiritually mature Christian who he can speak advanced Christian doctrines to. He also contrasts pneumatikos-spiritual (and thus teleios-mature) to the nepios-infant-child Christian to whom he cannot yet speak to re: these advanced Christian doctrines 1Cor3.
Paul is drawing a contrast mainly between the Greek scholar and the mature-spiritual Christian who has the Spirit of God. The best of the Greek scholars does not welcome advanced Christian teaching because they think it’s nonsense. And they can’t know it because they don’t have God’s Spirit. I’ve already dealt with the grammatical structure of the language in these verses. The main issue is they think God’s wisdom is nonsense. They in their self and culturally inflated minds place their own wisdom above anything supposedly of the Jewish God. And this was also part of the problem – the cultural multitude of gods.
So, back to the issue on this and other threads on this forum re: the psuchikos-Greek scholar and the Gospel:
- The issue here is not about the basic message of the Gospel.
- The issue is about the best of the Greek scholars without the Spirit of God vs. men like Paul and other mature-spiritual Christians with the Spirit of God. The best of the Greeks cannot understand the advanced teachings of Christianity. Their main problem is self-inflated human wisdom makes them unreceptive to God’s wisdom which they view as nonsense. This view keeps the best of the Greeks from welcoming the advanced teachings of God’s Spirit.
- Regarding the basics of the Gospel of Christ:
- Paul has not been speaking of the Gospel since 1Cor2:5
- Paul from 1Cor2:6-16 is dealing with the best of the Greeks compared to the mature-spiritual Christian with the Spirit. The best of the Greeks cannot know what the spiritually educated Christian knows.
- Nor can the nepios-baby Christian who is still fleshly-sarkikos know these advanced Christian doctrines 1Cor3. So the issue is not basics of the Gospel, but the advanced Christians doctrines that neither the baby and still carnal Christian, nor the psuchikos-soulish Greek scholar can know.
- To explain more of how the Bible presents the psuchikos-soulish man and why Paul is not dealing with the basics of the Gospel, we can compare him with Jude and James re; the psuchikos-soulish man:
- Jude is summoning Christians to exert intense effort for the once-for-all delivered faith – our common salvation. The faith is all Christian doctrine having to do with our salvation.
- In Jude1:19 he identifies the enemies as the psuchikoi-soulish men (plural of psuchikos-soulish man). Jude is speaking of these men’s condition and ungodliness and not limiting to Greek scholars but including all the soulish, ungodly.
- A few of their characteristics are:
- They are ungodly – irreverent towards God
- They change God’s grace into licentiousness – no moral restraints
- They refuse-disdain-deny-repudiate the only despotēs – the only absolute legal authority – God and/even our Lord Jesus Christ. So, according to Jude these psuchikoi-soulish men do understand the issue of who God is but they refuse Him, they disdain (loathe), deny, repudiate Him. They know who God is – they know who Jesus Christ is – they know the Gospel of Jesus Christ – they simply loathe Him.
- James tells us more about their so-called “wisdom”. Remember this is what Paul is dealing with – the human wisdom of the Greek scholars:
- It’s not from above
- It’s of the earth
- It’s psuchikos-soulish (doesn’t pertain to the Spirit)
- It’s demonic - originates from the lower realm of spirits
- Jude is summoning Christians to exert intense effort for the once-for-all delivered faith – our common salvation. The faith is all Christian doctrine having to do with our salvation.
- 1Cor2:14 is simply not about the ability to understand the foundational Gospel of Jesus Christ.
- In fact, when we include the information from Jude, he specifically tells us these psuchikoi-soulish men do know and understand the foundational Gospel of Jesus the Christ.
- These psuchikoi-soulish men specifically reject and loathe the authority of Jesus Christ which is to reject the foundational Gospel message that Jesus is the Christ (which is Paul’s foundational Gospel) which Jude states as being the faith we need to fight for – our common salvation – Jesus Christ is the only absolute legal authority (despotēs).
There are other Scriptures that are difficult to interpret in regard to deterministic vs. non-deterministic traditions. 1Cor2:14 IMO is simply not one of them.