Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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rogerg said:
Again, it is effect that you focus upon in your reply rather than cause. No one can come to Christ but that the Father draw him

[Jhn 6:44 KJV] 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (to draw, drag off metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
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Once again you are misusing Scripture for personal doctrine use.

Look at this Verse:
40 For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

How many beheld the Son when Jesus was alive?
Millions of people?
Is everyone of them saved?
They beheld the Son, Jesus!

The key in that Verse 40 is [(and believeth on Him)]

So you can hear the Gospel or see Jesus in person but if you don't CHOOSE to believe you won't be saved.
 
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cv5 said:
A super-determinist religious fantasy.....

Act 17:26
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Luk 11:9
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Luk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Click to expand...
have you considered whether there is any will in these messages, and once again I'll ask who's faith are you sharing here your faith or his faith.
 
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cv5 said:
Act 17:26
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Click to expand...

Look for cause AND effect, not only effect.

cv5 said:
Luk 11:9
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Luk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Click to expand...

Above addressed to His disciples, not everyone

[Luk 11:11 KJV] 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

Luk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
 
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lrs68 said:
Once again you are misusing Scripture for personal doctrine use.

Look at this Verse:
40 For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

How many beheld the Son when Jesus was alive?
Millions of people?
Is everyone of them saved?
They beheld the Son, Jesus!

The key in that Verse 40 is [(and believeth on Him)]

So you can hear the Gospel or see Jesus in person but if you don't CHOOSE to believe you won't be saved.
Click to expand...

Need I say it again, that you ignore cause and focus only on effect
 
rogerg said:
Look for cause AND effect, not only effect.



Above addressed to His disciples, not everyone

[Luk 11:11 KJV] 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

Luk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Click to expand...
Is it just me, or do I hear doors slamming again?
And excuses galore?
 
rogerg said:
Above addressed to His disciples, not everyone
[Luk 11:11 KJV] 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Luk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Click to expand...
Were the untold thousands attending the sermon on the mount all disciples? I think not.

Mat 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

*****************************************************************************************************

Another total fail on your part? Or do I exaggerate?

[Act 17:26 KJV]
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

[Act 17:27 KJV]
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
 
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cv5 said:
Were the untold thousands attending the sermon on the mount all disciples? I think not.

Mat 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Click to expand...

There were untold thousands, but He was only addressing His disciples:

[Mat 5:14-16 KJV]
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

[Mat 13:10-11, 13 KJV]
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. ...
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Gotta eat B/F now
 
NightTwister said:
In the end? According to you, you already won. Yet here you are still trying to win.
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The argument is done, scripture is clear regeneration does not precede faith and been clearly repudiated multiple times.


But the fact remains that people still are "lost in" (meaning accepting/promoting what is not true) a doctrine based on eisegesis and proof texting.
 
rogerg said:
There were untold thousands, but He was only addressing His disciples:

[Mat 5:14-16 KJV]
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

[Mat 13:10-11, 13 KJV]
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. ...
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Gotta eat B/F now
Click to expand...
Matthew13-11-13.png

Jesus' words in Matthew 13 v 11-13 (Mark 4 v 11-12; Luke 8 v 10) Prophecy of Isaiah 6 v 9 Fulfilled ~
The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: ‘Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’
 
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HeIsHere said:
The argument is done, scripture is clear regeneration does not precede faith and been clearly repudiated multiple times.
Click to expand...
Only those given to Jesus by God will come to Him, though you deny that.

Those given will come, and before that they were called and before that they were foreknown.
Those He foreknew, and called, He justified, making His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the
knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ... knowledge which the world can neither receive
nor comprehend, and FWers largely and quite massively fail to understand with their self-exalting doctrine
which denies a plethora of Scriptures, causing them to reject, contradict and rewrite what they don't like in the Bible.
 
Matthew16-15-17s.png

Matthew 16 verses 15-17 ~ What about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.
 
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rogerg said:
Again, it is effect that you focus upon in your reply rather than cause. No one can come to Christ but that the Father draw him

[Jhn 6:44 KJV] 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (to draw, drag off metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Click to expand...

Jesus said that with special reason...

The corrupting influence of the Pharisees had all the Jews being "works for salvation" conscious.

At that time, the Jews following rabbis and seek what works they should do to inherit eternal life.
Each rabbi would have his list for them.
That is why Jesus was always being asked what one should do to inherit eternal life.

So, when a huge crowd was following him in John 6.
Jesus gave them a work they must do to inherit eternal life.
That they should eat his flesh and drink his blood!
He was speaking spiritual principle, but they took Him literally.
In doing so, Jesus weeded out the religious idiots, and many followed him no more. (John 6:66)

Jesus then went on to explain how one inherits eternal life.
How?
God must draw a person into having faith in Him.
God does the work.

We simply accept the fruits of His labor when we believe.

But, we must accept.
The working of God makes us able to accept when we are ready.
Grace controls the flesh, as the soul is made free to make his choice... Free. Just like the angels did!

Its not complicated and strained logic.
God does not force us into believing.

Grace and peace .................
 
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