Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

God did his part . Sent the message out to all people . Anyone who hears and believes the gospel and responds will be saved . As a result of that . Anyone’s who rejects it won’t be saved as a result of that .

I realize this is your view.
Does God leave Christians to themselves once they are saved? Does He say I saved you, I did my part? When Adam sinned, did God say...well, I made you and gave you a great home. Now you are on your own.No. He came to him every day. Did He come to Abraham and tell him to take a trip and never return? Is God not willing and doing in each believer every day?
God has never left His people to their own devices. He even gave us the Spirit as an earnest of His eternal commitment to us. Because of this, and because I believe God needs to do some things in us to enable our will to actually be free, I respectfully disagree.

 

[Cameron143]

Cameron seems to be on a roll today! On 2nd thought, he's on a roll every day!

I'm tired. It's easier to just go stream of consciousness than think.

 

[cv5]

Sez you but you're always wrong anyway. I did not stumble - I stated what is undeniable in scripture. Guess you don't believe those whom God saves become born again? I'm not surprised.

@Pilgrimshope was engaging in a narrow discussion about the spirit of man......and you promptly derailed the convo train and careened into the gorge of stupidity.

It was an awful spectacle to behold, yes, but not just uncommon but INEVITABLE when dealing with the determinists.

Jas 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[BillyBob]

Paul and the epistle can give information for an individual to consider when choosing what one believes, which, in turn, may or may not affect one's actions. But the individual decides whether to act or not. But what effects whether or not a person believes and acts or not is their nature. This is why the whole discussion of freewill. What actually can an individual do given their fallen natural estate. You obviously believe the fallen natural man is free of impingement, and can act any way he wants. Others have pointed out some limitations that they believe render the fallen natural man unable to do certain things. I fall into the second group. Some of these include the estate of the heart, the lack of spiritual life, and the fact that he is not subject to the law of God, nor can be.
Given this, the conversation has progressed to whether or not the Spirit is necessary to salvation, and, if so, what is the extent of His involvement.

Cameron asked the question as to: whether or not the Spirit is necessary to salvation, and, if so, what is the extent of His involvement.
Was the Spirit sent to be with the people of God just to cheer them on, or does He play a more active role in bringing people to Christ? If He was sent to cheer only, then why was He sent at all?

 

[Kroogz]

Paul effects the change, the epistle effects the change, the individual effects the change, or the Spirit effects the change?

Good Lord! @Cameron143 effects the change.

 

[Kroogz]

Cameron asked the question as to: whether or not the Spirit is necessary to salvation, and, if so, what is the extent of His involvement.
Was the Spirit sent to be with the people of God just to cheer them on, or does He play a more active role in bringing people to Christ? If He was sent to cheer only, then why was He sent at all?

John 16:8
And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment:

John 3:16 Acts 16:31.

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved......

Eph 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Interesting that this is just a "game" to the calvies. Cheer on.

 

[BillyBob]

John 16:8
And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment:

John 3:16 Acts 16:31.

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved......

Eph 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Interesting that this is just a "game" to the calvies. Cheer on.

So, are you saying that the Spirit is in no way needed for salvation? That He only gives His stamp of approval once it occurs?

 

[Kroogz]

So, are you saying that the Spirit is in no way needed for salvation? That He only gives His stamp of approval once it occurs?

You obviously didn't read or comprehend the verses I posted.

You would not ask those questions if you did.

 

[BillyBob]

You obviously didn't read or comprehend the verses I posted.

You would not ask those questions if you did.

I did read your post, and I only saw that He came to convict the world! Is that all?

 

[Cameron143]

Good Lord! @Cameron143 effects the change.

This is where so many err. I and others can plant and water, but it is always God who gives the increase. You seem to believe the individual is responsible for his salvation. But what is actually true is that whatever that is positive after the planting and watering is the result of God.

 

[BillyBob]

Cameron asked the question as to: whether or not the Spirit is necessary to salvation, and, if so, what is the extent of His involvement.
Was the Spirit sent to be with the people of God just to cheer them on, or does He play a more active role in bringing people to Christ? If He was sent to cheer only, then why was He sent at all?

I guess FWers do not have an answer to the question. Maybe we should speak of God in two persons rather than three.

 

[lrs68]

Some people can't admit when they are wrong.

Are you saying that you only love God about the same as you try to love a complete stranger?

 

[lrs68]

I love these verses in Ephesians ...

Ephesians 3:

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

.

Amen!

 

[Kroogz]

This is where so many err. I and others can plant and water, but it is always God who gives the increase. You seem to believe the individual is responsible for his salvation. But what is actually true is that whatever that is positive after the planting and watering is the result of God.

How many times? Over and over and over.....

Faith Is Non meritorious. It is the OBJECT of faith that has all the merit....The Lord Jesus Christ.

And Get real @Cameron143, with countless posts you deride "planting and watering." The natural man is a steaming pile of skubala in your theory. It is all vanity and pointless.

 

[lrs68]

Yes, you have. It's an impersonal, unconditional love for mankind.

The reformed/calvie/tulip folks have not reached this love.

Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL. ALL.

He died for the whole world. You and I love each and every individual because we KNOW He died for them while yet sinners.

I like this viewpoint very much.

 

[Jordon]

Paul and the epistle can give information for an individual to consider when choosing what one believes, which, in turn, may or may not affect one's actions. But the individual decides whether to act or not. But what effects whether or not a person believes and acts or not is their nature. This is why the whole discussion of freewill. What actually can an individual do given their fallen natural estate. You obviously believe the fallen natural man is free of impingement, and can act any way he wants. Others have pointed out some limitations that they believe render the fallen natural man unable to do certain things. I fall into the second group. Some of these include the estate of the heart, the lack of spiritual life, and the fact that he is not subject to the law of God, nor can be.
Given this, the conversation has progressed to whether or not the Spirit is necessary to salvation, and, if so, what is the extent of His involvement.

just trying understand your faith here, the natural man is not bound to the law because he can not hear or seek God.

When the laws written on people hearts are they no longer natural at that stage, or are they saved or will they be saved and its inevitable they will be ?

But the natural man doesn't get the laws written on there hearts because they haven't accepted something from his enabling grace ?

 

[lrs68]

Better than some isn't the same as God's standard for love. So you are completely inaccurate.

Aren't we supposed to love God to the point of even rejecting all others according to Jesus?

I think my sentiments are correct.

 

[lrs68]

Yep Well it depends who the scripture seek the lord was being spoken to I guess.

Like this one seek the lord whilst he can be found Isaiah 55.6

Is suggesting the lords presence coming to you.

Maybe another case of God for-knowing you, and also a. Case of enabling grace.

But the dual complexity surely that exists in a saved person no.

Like dieing to self daily.

Or was there a dual complexity prior to the fall in some way ? One side of that complexity, the spiritual side suffered a spiritual disconnect from God and was taking captive by the darkness ?

But Gof found away to provide a hedge of protection ?

Another excellent post and I will take some time to give it a proper response

 

[Cameron143]

Are you saying that you only love God about the same as you try to love a complete stranger?

I'm saying when I walk in the flesh, it is impossible to keep any commandment. When the love of God is shed abroad in my heart, I can do no other.
But my original point was that your statement that God doesn't give commandments that we can't keep is false, and that by your own admission.

 

[Cameron143]

How many times? Over and over and over.....

Faith Is Non meritorious. It is the OBJECT of faith that has all the merit....The Lord Jesus Christ.

And Get real @Cameron143, with countless posts you deride "planting and watering." The natural man is a steaming pile of skubala in your theory. It is all vanity and pointless.

Faith is non-meritorious when it's source is God. When the source is man, it is meritorious.

And you bear false witness. I have never downplayed the importance of planting and watering. I have only said the increase is due to God, not men. I simply don't rob God of the glory.