Not when the only scripture they stand on has been twisted & taken out of context.
Acts 2, Ephesians 4, 1 co 12-14 ?
Are all the spiritual gifts still active today?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Acts 2, Ephesians 4, 1 co 12-14 ?
I most certainly do believe that the Holy Spirit is active today but not in the manner of the New Testament age as recorded in 1st Cor.
Unlike you, I do not assume either way. I ponder the world around me and reason.
This is childish, reality does not change because we "change our worldview".
"How does theology blind me into EXPERIENCING something manifest in the physical realm?"
Pentecostalism causes people to see the miraculous under rock, while making them blind to the foolishness of their own line of reasoning.
???
I just read all those verses you listed and none of them says these gifts have ceased. Why would you list these verses when you know some people are Berean and will study them?
Acts 2
16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
We are living in the last days that this chapter talks about. This chapter never said that these gifts ceased.
Ephesians 4
7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
...
11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up
This chapter doesn't say the gifts have ceased.
The chapter also says this:
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Telling God's children the gifts have ceased when that's not found anywhere in Scripture is grieving the Holy Spirit of God. Because you're discouraging God's children from letting the Holy Spirit work through them in these gifts.
1 Corinthians 12
This chapter is ALL about the gifts! Nowhere in this chapter says that the gifts have ceased. This chapter teaches how to use these gifts to build up the Church.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
...
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles (church planting), second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
1 Corinthians 13
This chapter doesn't say the gifts have ceased either. But it does talk about applying these gifts with love.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
Paul says we see only a reflection as in a mirror RIGHT NOW. It is until completeness comes, is when these gifts disappear.
Completeness doesn't mean the completed canon of Scripture into the Bible. Completeness is when Jesus returns for us and redeems us, making us like Him.
1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
1 Corinthians 14
14 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.
...
12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.
...
26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.
Note here that Paul takes for granted that these gifts of the Spirit are normal and common when Christians gather together.
...
39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.
So this chapter doesn't say the gifts have ceased either.
Why did you even post these chapters??? They DO NOT support the cessationist position AT ALL.
The Creator of the Universe and all that is in it can't take care of His own book?
Right.. so..these show what the spiritual gifts are..how they work.
So then you go from there.. and ask yourself if that is what is practiced now.
So for example.. you've got known languages being spoken in Acts 2 .. for tongues. The people speaking them didn't know them.. but the hearers heard in their language. Is that what goes on today?
Another example is in 1 co 12-14 you've got a structure to abide by for practicing interpretation of tongues and for doing it in an orderly way.
I've never seen supposed tongues and prophecy practiced according to these guidelines. And its usually gibberish..not real languages.
But this is focused on prophecy, tongues and knowledge...everything else..all the aspects of the faith..still go on.
So then you go from there.. and ask yourself if that is what is practiced now.
So for example.. you've got known languages being spoken in Acts 2 .. for tongues. The people speaking them didn't know them.. but the hearers heard in their language. Is that what goes on today?
Another example is in 1 co 12-14 you've got a structure to abide by for practicing interpretation of tongues and for doing it in an orderly way.
I've never seen supposed tongues and prophecy practiced according to these guidelines. And its usually gibberish..not real languages.
But this is focused on prophecy, tongues and knowledge...everything else..all the aspects of the faith..still go on.
Just acting like these chapters uphold you cessationist position still won't work when people actually read and study them, especially with the Holy Spirit guiding them. You'll only fool stupid and/or lazy people with dead faith into believing you.
Anyway, I only replied under your post because the Holy Spirit showed me what a perfect opportunity for other readers to get to know about His gifts!
-=<❀>=-
To the rest of you inquiring about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, ask Him to guide you into understanding these chapters. The Bible says to eagerly seek these gifts, especially those that build up the church. Don't let cessationists discourage you from receiving these gifts and deny the Holy Spirit an area in your life where you can work together and be a blessing to the church and a blessing in your own walk with God.
In terms of speaking in tongues, it is more than just known languages of men. It is actually the ability to speak to God!
1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
So speaking in tongues is to personally build you up and your walk with God.
In my own experience I find that the things brought up to God while speaking in tongues are about things that needed to be prayed for, but that I may have missed or have not known about. Sometimes God lays it on my heart what was just discussed or I improve in something, or circumstances change, etc. Either way, it is definitely a blessing and I appreciate God even more!
If you're in church or other Christian gathering where speaking in tongues is occurring, it should be in an orderly manner and please pray for interpretation.
1 Corinthians 14:27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.
I can speak from experience that this does happen and it's a great blessing whether it is to strengthen and encourage the church, or even rebuke them of lukewarmness and prioritize God as first again.
Don't go to dead churches that won't allow these gifts to manifest. At the same time, don't go to churches that abuse these gifts. There are churches that exist that properly use these gifts to build up God's people. Pray that God leads you to a such a good church.
Not sure what you have experienced and why, but we can be confident that no one's experience is normative per Scripture or authoritative for doctrine.
Just acting like these chapters uphold you cessationist position still won't work when people actually read and study them, especially with the Holy Spirit guiding them. You'll only fool stupid and/or lazy people with dead faith into believing you.
Anyway, I only replied under your post because the Holy Spirit showed me what a perfect opportunity for other readers to get to know about His gifts!
-=<❀>=-
To the rest of you inquiring about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, ask Him to guide you into understanding these chapters. The Bible says to eagerly seek these gifts, especially those that build up the church. Don't let cessationists discourage you from receiving these gifts and deny the Holy Spirit an area in your life where you can work together and be a blessing to the church and a blessing in your own walk with God.
In terms of speaking in tongues, it is more than just known languages of men. It is actually the ability to speak to God!
1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
So speaking in tongues is to personally build you up and your walk with God.
In my own experience I find that the things brought up to God while speaking in tongues are about things that needed to be prayed for, but that I may have missed or have not known about. Sometimes God lays it on my heart what was just discussed or I improve in something, or circumstances change, etc. Either way, it is definitely a blessing and I appreciate God even more!
If you're in church or other Christian gathering where speaking in tongues is occurring, it should be in an orderly manner and please pray for interpretation.
1 Corinthians 14:27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.
I can speak from experience that this does happen and it's a great blessing whether it is to strengthen and encourage the church, or even rebuke them of lukewarmness and prioritize God as first again.
Don't go to dead churches that won't allow these gifts to manifest. At the same time, don't go to churches that abuse these gifts. There are churches that exist that properly use these gifts to build up God's people. Pray that God leads you to a such a good church.
1Cor. 14 should be harmonized with 1Cor. 13 and the rest of the NT, which does not support what you espouse.
Genuine glossolalia per Acts 2 was speaking an unlearned earthly language, but what you apparently accept (babbling)
pagans practiced for years before Christianity.
IMO/experience of you, humility rather than being built up is needed in order to be charming toward those who see no evidence
that genuine SIT still occurs. Babbling is "abuse" and NOT the mark of a good church, but rather love per Jesus in John 13:35 and
per Paul in 1Cor 13 and the rest of his epistles.
LIC, GWH
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there beprophecies, they shall fail; whether there betongues, they shall cease; whether there beknowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Has JESUS returned yet?
Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Matthew 12:15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
Luke 6:19 And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all.
JESUS said this,
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
JESUS said this,
Acts 1,
1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
They waited and this happened.
Acts 2:3-4
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
After were baptized in the Holy GHost.
Acts 3:6-16
King James Version
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
Key, HIS disciples were told NOT TO GO out without the promise of the father.
They waited and what happened?? They were filled with the Holy Ghost.
Somethings happens when you are, those who have OBEYED HIS word knows they are alive today.
Those who refuse to OBEY are not filled and say it ended, IT CAN'T BE THEM PRIDED is Satan's best tool.
No, but Paul commands striving toward moral perfection until Christ returns (Phil. 3:12-21).
Ignoring GW is no excuse for ignorance of GW.
It does along with the rest of GODS word and tongues will not cease until HE returns.
You are right, no excuse for ignorance, there is an answer in GOD'S word for everything, show me where it ended.
Just because you have never been filled does not mean it stopped.
If you repent and OBEY, JESUS WILL FILL YOU HE promised.
To everybody seeking the truth about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, this
is how cessationists are. They twist posts of those who believe and have the gifts and ignore what has been clearly explained hoping you're too stupid and/or lazy to have already read that post.Just like satan does. And satan doesn't want you to have anything good and beneficial from God to help build up the church and your own individuals walks with the Lord. These gifts are that powerful!
So study the Bible with God teaching and giving you discernment and proper use of the gifts. Love God and His truth and He won't let you be deceived away from having and using these gifts!
Ended/stopped? I am waiting for you to start getting filled per GW
(John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Eph. 3:16-19, etc.).
LIC, GWH
To everybody seeking the truth about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, this
Just like satan does. And satan doesn't want you to have anything good and beneficial from God to help build up the church and your own individuals walks with the Lord. These gifts are that powerful!
So study the Bible with God teaching and giving you discernment and proper use of the gifts. Love God and His truth and He won't let you be deceived away from having and using these gifts!
Unless your post is meant to illustrate twisting, you need to practice what you preach.
IOW, we ought to manifest God's power by being charming instead of hateful toward whomever.
May we all have and use the gift of divine love!
LIC, GWH
So you can't show where it ended and now tring to twist it back on me LOL.
I have OBEYED HIS word, been baptized in JESUS name to get rid of my sins and JESUS has filled me with HIS spirit.
That is how I know your so wrong.
I follow ALL of HIS word not just the book of John, or the letters to the churches that Paul wrote who ALSO follow ALL of GOD'S word and have been reborn. That is why they are letters to churches not the unsaved.
If you followed Paul you also would have followed the rest of the JESUS disciples.
No issure again, I knew you coulnt' show me where being filled with HIS spitit stopped.
You also failed to show me where being baptized in JESUS name stopped.
You sure are getting real backed up with explaining to prove your right.
Well, if how you have treated me is obeying John 13:35, Rom. 5:5 and Eph. 3:16-19,
I would hate to experience you disobeying GW!