Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Rufus said:
Why didn't Adam step into the gap between Eve and God, as Moses did between Israel and God, and offer to pay her sin debt by pleading with God to take his life on her behalf? I suppose in your universe Adam was more righteous than Moses! :rolleyes:
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I did not know Adam had a mother and father. When did they appear, and in which book, chapter and verse can they be found? .:unsure:
 
studier said:
Not really doing this for you, roger. I don't expect you to care nor do I think you'll be able to interact if I get into the Greek or point to writings that do.

I first looked at this for myself some time ago and revisited it several times over the years and a few times since I started interacting on these threads. For several reasons the determinist interpretation IMO makes the least amount of sense.

If you'd like to read an article that gets into the commentaries and provides some degree of an analysis of them and comes to its own conclusion, I've read this among others.

The point is, there has been a lot of work done on this verse and just like the Gospel, people get to make a choice as to what to receive and what to reject.
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Thanks for the link. Yes, it appears to concatenate seamlessly with the earlier piece.

Hey Calvinists.....any takers? Last call for hacksaws.....
 
Cameron143 said:
This is a ridiculous statement. No one of the reformed faith says anything like this. How could they know
who God might extend grace to. They would simply share the gospel. It's dishonest to suggest otherwise.
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Free willers freely choose to lie as much as they freely will to do so. Ugh. It's disgusting.

They do what 1 Peter 2 v 16 says not to do.

Forfreedom.png

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Galatians 5 verse 1 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. Romans 6 verse 18 Be careful, however, that your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 1 Corinthians 8 verse 9 Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 1 Peter 2 verse 16 Though I am free of obligation to anyone, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 1 Corinthians 9 verse 19
 
cv5 said:
Wise men and scribes show up and give all of the prisoners hacksaws and this is the thanks we get? Sheesh.
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LOL at you being a wise man. You are not wise. Spend more time in Scripture and
align your views there instead of all the garbage you spend countless hours on.
Then maybe you will know something worth knowing. Maybe. Hope springs eternal.
 
Cameron143 said:
This is a ridiculous statement. No one of the reformed faith says anything like this. How could they know who God might extend grace to. They would simply share the gospel. It's dishonest to suggest otherwise.
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To say to an unbeliever leave and go to where unbelievers congregate is not what Christ would do. And the Reformed believes that God chooses so for anyone not in the Reformed camp would only understand what happened as the Reformed member felt this way.
 
Cameron143 said:
This is a ridiculous statement. No one of the reformed faith says anything like this. How could they know who God might extend grace to. They would simply share the gospel. It's dishonest to suggest otherwise.
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The "religious" Pharisees were engaged in preaching activities too. Bad doctrine though.....:rolleyes:

[Mat 23:15 NKJV] 15 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
 
Rufus said:
It appears that God has decreed (determined) that FWers call good evil and evil good. (WOE unto them!) They're bending over backwards to try to make Adam's sinful choice into a righteous, virtuous one! And in so doing, they make Eve the bad gal in the Garden. It was all her fault! :rolleyes:
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Isaiah5-20s.png

Isaiah 5 v 20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who turn darkness to light and light to darkness, who replace bitter with sweet and sweet with bitter.
 
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There is more hope for a fool than for some of these free willers.

Isaiah5-20-21-Proverbs26-12-Be.png

Isaiah 5 v 20-21; Proverbs 26 v 12b Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who turn darkness to light and light to darkness, who replace bitter with sweet and sweet with bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. There is more hope for a fool than for him.
 
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cv5 said:
Nope. Thank God that I actually took the time to do some detective work.

Now I OWN Acts 13:48.

Luck me huh?
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Considering that it is faith that God desires from men...and it is those that exhibit faith which God appoints to eternal life...
Would it be so very inadequate to express the idea as, "And as many as were willing to extend good faith to the word that they were told) that is, that heard) were appointed to eternal life believed"?
 
Mark12-30.png

Mark 12 verse 30 ~ Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.
 
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lrs68 said:
To say to an unbeliever leave and go to where unbelievers congregate is not what Christ would do. And the Reformed believes that God chooses so for anyone not in the Reformed camp would only understand what happened as the Reformed member felt this way.
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It was a joke. You may find it in poor taste, but I didn't see you sharing the gospel with the individual. Others here did attempt to share scripture.
 
What i do know is what I've posted several times in this Thread alone that the Reformed will never fulfill the Great Commission to try to make Disciples when clearly it's easier to just believe God picks and chooses so instead of dealing with the unbelievers just tell them to leave.
 
Cameron143 said:
It was a joke. You may find it in poor taste, but I didn't see you sharing the gospel with the individual. Others here did attempt to share scripture.
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Look at my interactions with him i was trying to learn if he experienced a miracle or the unexplained and then explained how bearded men wrote the Bible in order to strike up a conversation and work on his reasoning.
 
cv5 said:
The "religious" Pharisees were engaged in preaching activities too. Bad doctrine though.....:rolleyes:

[Mat 23:15 NKJV] 15 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
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That's because they taught that salvation rested upon the actions of men and not the activity of God. That sounds alot like your position.
 
Magenta said:
LOL at you being a wise man. You are not wise. Spend more time in Scripture and
align your views there instead of all the garbage you spend countless hours on.
Then maybe you will know something worth knowing. Maybe. Hope springs eternal.
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So you are saying you don't want the hacksaw?
 
studier said:
Not really doing this for you, roger. I don't expect you to care nor do I think you'll be able to interact if I get into the Greek or point to writings that do.
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Okay, thought you had addressed it to me - must have misread that - but you're correct, I definitely don't care.
 
lrs68 said:
What i do know is what I've posted several times in this Thread alone that the Reformed will never fulfill the Great Commission to try to make Disciples when clearly it's easier to just believe God picks and chooses so instead of dealing with the unbelievers just tell them to leave.
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Again, a false claim. Show the evidence that those of a reformed bent act this way or admit you're wrong.
 
Cameron143 said:
That's because they taught that salvation rested upon the actions of men and not the activity of God. That sounds alot like your position.
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When you say "activity of God" what you REALLY mean is "pre-birth sovereign lottery winners and losers" correct?

I mean, that's your message to the unsaved world. Right?

Feel free to chime in @rogerg and @Magenta ..... don't be shy.
 
lrs68 said:
Look at my interactions with him i was trying to learn if he experienced a miracle or the unexplained and then explained how bearded men wrote the Bible in order to strike up a conversation and work on his reasoning.
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So did I. And I share a reformed view of scripture. Your claim is demonstrably false yet you continue to repeat it.
 
cv5 said:
When you say "activity of God" what you REALLY mean is "pre-birth sovereign lottery winners and losers" correct?

I mean, that's your message to the unsaved world. Right?

Feel free to chime in @rogerg and @Magenta ..... don't be shy.
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Oh I get it, when you take something out of context suddenly it is okay. Hypocrisy runs rank with you.
 
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