Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Philippians 3 verse 3; Colossians 2 verse 11; Romans 2 verse 29b ~ For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh. You were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. Circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.

 

[Cameron143]

Those in the desert were insufficient against the Giants in the Promised Land but had they just did what God told them to do they wouldn't have died just miles away from the Promise.

Right. No faith. But it's still an example of God asking people do things they cannot do.

 

[Magenta]

Right. No faith. But it's still an example of God asking people do things they cannot do.

Are you expecting to get truth out of a liar?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Because mankind in there fallen state needs reminding or confirmation to do the right thing, because the knowledge of evil is going to choose for them

again you leave off the fact that God said mankind has knowledge of both good and evil ...

so why is it that only "evil is going to choose for them"?

but not just choose but change their emotions there feelings, and no doubt repeatably tempt them into not doing the right thing.

and again ... why is it only knowledge of "evil" that has an effect on mankind. Why is knowledge of good left off the plate? ...

and if knowledge of evil can "change their emotions there feelings", why cannot the knowledge of good do the same?

and if knowledge of evil can "no doubt repeatably tempt them into not doing the right thing", why cannot the knowledge of good stay the urge to not do the right thing?

So I feel for some exceptions on theses bases that a natural man can do the right thing, but on what bases ?

on the basis that God gave the knowledge of good as He told us way way back in Genesis.

I understand the knowledge of evil ... but do you understand the knowledge of good that God tells us mankind is capable of knowing?

By themselves ?

I doubt it,

If not by themselves then how ?

as I have repeatedly stated to you and others (and not just in this thread btw), God reaches out to mankind ... not just once ... not just twice ... God reaches out continuously over the lifetime of a person ... a person either believes or a person suppresses the truth in unrighteousness when God comes a-knockin'

Just maybe the communication that takes place has a kind of will attached to it that either the person passes the test with or they don't.

We know our.father examines the heart and tests the heart.

As I stated in Post 10,861 the Word of God is living and active ... if the Word of God is not rejected, God gives increase to the person who does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
.

 

[Blain]

Right. No faith. But it's still an example of God asking people do things they cannot do.

God never asks us to do anything we cannot do.

 

[Cameron143]

rolleyes ... so if/when God tells folks to do things they actually can do ... and those folks do them and receive the blessing promised ... God does not get the glory????

verses relating to the healing of Naaman:

2 Kings 5:

10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.

11 But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.

12 Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.

13 And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?

14 Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

15 And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.


In 2 Kings 5:17 Naaman said he would not offer sacrifices to any other gods ... he would only offer to the LORD.
.

I never made any such claim. Why act as though I did? Do you have any comments on what I actually said?

 

[Magenta]

God never asks us to do anything we cannot do.

How many besides Jesus were able to keep the law perfectly?

 

[Genez]

I can't stay to to long but is clear, you and others are making this all about calvinists and there beliefs and depravity being one of those beliefs, or as you quoted out of absolutely no where total depravity,

I've already read how you and others condemn calvinists, so if you can't admit you take these things personal then you perhaps you really need a lesson in how you talk to people sir.

Man is born into depravity.

No argument from me.

Its how God works around that depravity to get a soul saved where the disagreements enter the picture.

Calvinist rely on "Irresistible Grace."

Yet, even the grace given, even the one who rejects God, is irresistible while God ministers it to the person rejecting.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Now all you have to do is take your own advice...

still feeding your flesh ... keeping it nice and strong ... you feel better now?

Ephesians 4:2

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

...

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
.

 

[Cameron143]

God never asks us to do anything we cannot do.

I've already shown that statement to be incorrect, but...can you love others the way Christ loves us?

 

[lrs68]

Did God tell you you could circumcise your heart? You are changing the subject now. Just more evasive dishonesty from you.

Just as I suspected. Good bye.

The Verse I presented has nothing to do with circumcision so I wonder why you are trying to force that when it doesn't matter in the context of the Verse spoken about.

But whether it was foreskin removal or the heart only God made it become a unique and specific condition to Himself.

 

[Intersection]

God never asks us to do anything we cannot do.

 

[lrs68]

Right. No faith. But it's still an example of God asking people do things they cannot do.

We can see multiple viewpoint concerning this subject matter.

But the point is if God says to do something and then if man obeys then God will make it happen.

 

[Rufus]

I completely understand what you are trying to make the Potter and the Clay metaphor out to be here. But in that metaphor it was a demonstration of the Power of God over someone viewed as powerful or the Nation Itself that person was associated with.

God defeating Pharaoh reveals the Power of God because God also defeats Egypt.

But Joe-Blow, a nobody, someone who isn't making a difference on the world stage let alone in his own neighborhood and environment isn't giving Power to God should God defeat Joe-Blow because [(no one is ever going to know for God to be glorified through His Power)].

So clearly these examples of Pharaoh and Egypt are very few. God only gets recognized whenever everyone knows what He did not when just a single person knows.

Therefore you are either misusing these examples or flatly you don't know the difference.

For your info, the Potter-Clay metaphor applies to all five individuals mentioned in Rom 9. Like Pharaoh, Ishmael and Esau were not "children of the promise" -- due to God's eternal decree!

 

[Jordon]

again you leave off the fact that God said mankind has knowledge of both good and evil ...

so why is it that only "evil is going to choose for them"?





and again ... why is it only knowledge of "evil" that has an effect on mankind. Why is knowledge of good left off the plate? ...

and if knowledge of evil can "change their emotions there feelings", why cannot the knowledge of good do the same?

and if knowledge of evil can "no doubt repeatably tempt them into not doing the right thing", why cannot the knowledge of good stay the urge to not do the right thing?





on the basis that God gave the knowledge of good as He told us way way back in Genesis.

I understand the knowledge of evil ... but do you understand the knowledge of good that God tells us mankind is capable of knowing?





as I have repeatedly stated to you and others (and not just in this thread btw), God reaches out to mankind ... not just once ... not just twice ... God reaches out continuously over the lifetime of a person ... a person either believes or a person suppresses the truth in unrighteousness when God comes a-knockin'





As I stated in Post 10,861 the Word of God is living and active ... if the Word of God is not rejected, God gives increase to the person who does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
.

I havent left that out

I quoted. A few days ago this very thing,

But you may not recall I showed real interest in the oracle also

It was placed on the heart of men in the old t in Jeremiah

It's why I brought it up as I just knew it has great significance for the natural man in his fallen state

It's the oracle I believe it has greatness attached to it also

I believe the oracle is sent to all and it's a message placed on the heart that people either rule over sin with that day or they don't.

 

[Blain]

How many besides Jesus were able to keep the law perfectly?

Fair point however the law was not given because he expected us to be able to keep it fully it was to show how much we needed a savior
The Bible teaches that the Law was given to reveal sin and show people their inability to be made righteous by their own efforts, thereby revealing their need for a Savior. Key scriptures supporting this include Galatians 3:19, which states the law was added "because of transgressions," and Romans 3:20, which says, "no one can be made right with God by following the law. The law only shows us our sin".


Biblical Basis

• Galatians 3:19:
  .
  "Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins".
  
  
• Romans 3:20 (New Century Version):
  .
  "because no one can be made right with God by following the law. The law only shows us our sin".
  

Purpose of the Law

• Reveals sin:
  The Law acts like a mirror, showing people the standard of God's righteousness and how they fall short by their actions and inherent sinful nature.
  
  
• Demonstrates human inability:
  It highlights that humanity cannot achieve righteousness or meet God's standards by their own deeds.
  
  
• Points to a Savior:
  By showing the depth of our sin and inability, the Law prepares people for the coming of Jesus Christ, who offers salvation through faith in Him.
  

The Law's Temporary Role

• The Law was not intended to be a permanent solution but a temporary measure to prepare people for the fulfillment of God's promise through Jesus. Once Christ arrived, the way to righteousness through faith became available to all.

• The Purpose of the Law (Gal 3:19-26) - The Fellowship
  — Rom 3:20 and Rom 4:15 tell us that the law brings knowledge of sin, and shows us our transgression. Therefore, the law...
  
  
  
• The law was given to reveal sin and humanity's need for a savior
  Galatians 3:19 (NLT), “Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show peopl...
  
  
  
  
  
  
• The Law and the Promise | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at ...
  Paul says that the law was added "because of transgressions" (Galatians 3:19). It was designed to show us our sins and point out o...
  
  

 

[Blain]

I've already shown that statement to be incorrect, but...can you love others the way Christ loves us?

Yes I can and we all are taught to do so

 

[Magenta]

Fair point however the law was not given because he expected us to be able to keep it fully

Okay, that is called moving the goal posts. The law was commands which nobody could keep perfectly and that is the subject matter.

God commands things people simply cannot do, you denied this.

Who circumcises our hearts? People were commanded to. Yet it is accomplished by the Holy Spirit, not us.

 

[Blain]

View attachment 279149

Still doing this are we? do you just have this in your pc to use anytime you respond to me? I still have no idea why you continue to post this

 

[Genez]

We are told how to live a life that is pleasing to God. Yet many times we fail, because we are fallen creatures. But, when we are told to choose life rather than death, FWers tell us that [God would not ask us to do something that we are unable to do].
The sad fact is that we ARE UNABLE to do this without being brought to newness of life!
And that, my friend, is a work of God.

Newness of life is the fruit of the following:

But be continuously growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. ​

To him be glory both now and forever! Amen. 2 Peter 3:18​

That passage involves a continuous, relational process of actively seeking a deeper personal understanding of Jesus Christ and His grace through studying and learning God's word, engaging in spiritual practices, and developing an intimate relationship with Him.

We will be frustrated in fulfilling that requirement until we finally locate a good pastor teacher who actually knows how to teach the Scriptures soundly.

Sad to report... Many will not find it.

Here is the reason..

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great ​

number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3​

​

​

gap....