Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[HeIsHere]

Could it be that the super-determinists have chosen to willfully obfuscate Biblical truth to prop up their bogus doctrine again?
COULD IT????

I do think there are some who "willingly" obfuscate Biblical truth and others sadly lack discernment and are gullible.

What greater hindrance to the Gospel than to than to deny the need for a personal response/faith, instead they are told to wait to be activated and so they know they are part of the elect.

The deny the ability to respond positively to the Gospel message the very heart and purpose of the NT!!!

So very bogus and dangerous.

What the heck does that mean... "activated"

 

[Genez]

Weird. Oh, well, my position is that if God gives you something, you have it.

And of course, faith is a gift even though that is denied by some in the FW crowd.

Like HeIsHere, who contradicts and denies quite a bit of Scripture, actually.

And you never can show how it is denied.

Stated by you simply because it contradicts what your group-think has accepted.

 

[Magenta]

Then it seems like the definition or at least the parameters of "free" are simple to establish and the expanded philosophical and neurological noise is just to maintain desired confusion and argument.

Those who seem to value maintaining the confusion seem to me to be like those who value functioning in the darkness.

Balderdash. Darkness does not comprehend the light and REFUSES to come into the light.

 

[Magenta]

I do think there are some who "willingly" obfuscate Biblical truth

Like you. Butchering verses, denying and contradicting several things that Jesus said. Over and over again.

 

[Genez]

How clueless are you really?

That was nasty...
How bankrupt are you that you can not provide an answer, at least for yourself?

 

[Genez]

.sir that's the biggest understatement of the day so far.

To answer you is to take what you say personally?
Is that what you meant?

If that's the case?

I think "projection" is at work here.

Projection, the mental process by which people attribute to others what is in their own minds.

 

[cv5]

I've explained already the only will that I see being free is God's

God WILLFULLY imposes constraints on His own will. Satan? Not so much.
And like any good Father, God constrains us as well. Despite our volition to do otherwise.

[Tit 1:2 KJV]
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

[Jas 1:13 KJV]
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

[Mal 3:6 KJV]
For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

[Psa 89:34 KJV]
My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

 

[studier]

Human free will is not defined correctly and any will we may have is limited Gods will is defined correctly and its free.

Bye for now

Then you must be able to define human will with some precision since you can tell us it's not defined correctly.

 

[Magenta]

I do think there are some who "willingly" obfuscate Biblical truth and others sadly lack discernment and are gullible.

What greater hindrance to the Gospel than to than to deny the need for a personal response/faith, instead they are told to wait to be activated and so they know they are part of the elect.

The deny the ability to respond positively to the Gospel message the very heart and purpose of the NT!!!

So very bogus and dangerous.

What the heck does that mean... "activated"

I do not know anyone who has said anything about being activated, or the need to wait to be activated.
But you deny that faith is a gift, just as you deny that there are those who do not hear, and you deny that
the gospel is hid, and you deny that men are incurably wicked, and that nothing good can come of the
flesh. Scripture says the opposite of many things you repeatedly claim.

 

[Edward429451]

You refuse to deal with the Scriptures given, so there is no point continuing, especially since you are stuck on
logical fallacies. You have been taken captive by a vain self-exalting philosophy. And just a heads' up, yes,
everyone is born with a sinful nature and is a sinner. Scripture says so. There are none righteous, no, not one!
Not sure why I am telling you, though. Just more for you to pretend is not there. It's a general problem with heretics.

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. Mark ch. 10 verse 18 and Luke ch. 18 verse 19 “There is only One who is good.” Matthew ch. 19 verse 17b. There is no one who does good. fr Psalm ch. 14. There is no one righteous, not even one. Romans ch. 3 verse 10. They are corrupt; their ways are vile. There is no one who does good. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. fr Psalm ch. 53 verses 1-3. Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Ecclesiastes ch. 7 verse 20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Well God bless you anyway for calling me a heretic. Have a blessed day sister.

 

[Magenta]

Well God bless you anyway for calling me a heretic. Have a blessed day sister.

Are you a heretic? It is certainly a problem with heretics that they ignore much of what the Bible says, just like
you did. You ignored all the verses I gave which were many, and claimed I must be talking about something else!

Please answer these questions if you will; it may help us determine for sure whether or nor you are one.

Then when I actually do call you a heretic, we will know for sure it is a fact:

What Say You? ~ When Scripture says there are none good, does it mean some are good? When Scripture says we all fall short, does it mean there are some who meet God's standards? When Scripture says, "The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned..." Does it mean the natural man can understand the spiritual things of God? Does it mean he really can understand the gospel message even though it is heard as foolishness to him as Scriptures say? Is the natural man gifted with wisdom even though he has no fear of God, which is the beginning of wisdom? Will the lover of darkness come into the light even though Scripture says he will not, because he suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness and is actually defined as darkness itself, hates the light, and is a slave to sin, blinded to the truth and captive to the will of the devil, which many define as being free? Is the heart of the natural man, the stony ground which needs to be replaced, fit for receiving and growing the Seed of God's Word into faith? Will that incurably wicked heart choose of its own accord to believe? Will that bad tree bring forth the good fruit of faith even though Jesus said it was not possible?

 

[rogerg]

Yes, I am saying that! It's quite the paradox, isn't it?

Scripture is quite clear, explicit and specific on this matter. God opposes the proud (man's natural, evil disposition of the heart) but gives grace to the humble (Jas 4:6; 1Pet 5:5) which supernaturally flows from God's gift of the Fear of the Lord (Prov 15:33). Even God's elect do not come into this world in a state of humility! So, how do they wind up being gifted with God's precious grace? Jesus Christ is how because he was the paragon of humility. So, as the elect's Federal Head, God's grace comes to them through their perfect Representative. All that the elect have comes through their Federal Head. Therefore, Christ, in this sense, is the prerequisite to his Father's grace. All that the Father has chosen in eternity and given his grace to (again, in eternity) are the humble ones based entirely on Christ's merits. While election from a horizontal standpoint is unconditional, another paradox is that it's also conditional in a vertical sense since all grace is conditioned solely on the merits of Christ's perfect, holy, righteous life and work of atonement.

Does this make sense to you?

Yup, makes sense and how I see it too - the way I read it confused me a little - although knowing your beliefs, I assumed you intended something other than what was immediately obvious to me - thanks for clarifying.

 

[HeIsHere]

It was comment 10,589 i think Magenta but i totally agree we are so fallen, we can't submit to or obey Him, without His mercy and grace.

Many times in my life something beautiful, wondrous etc made me think He must exist but i did nothing about it, until He "activated" me last year. Activating me is closest to what happened i think.

Must go soon friend, it's always lovely seeing you.

Connecting to Post #10 801

 

[Magenta]

Also @Edward429451 please tell us which of these Bible verses you disagree with.

Man’s heart is deceitful above all things and incurable (Jer 17 v 9), himself full of evil (Mark 7 v 21-23), loves darkness rather than light (John 3 v 19), cannot come to God on his own (John 6 v 44), does not seek for God (Rom 3 v 10-12), is helpless and ungodly (Rom 5 v 6), nothing good dwells in his flesh (Rom 7 v 18), is a slave of sin (Rom 6 v 20, John 8 v 34, 2 Tim 2 v 26), cannot receive spiritual things (1 Cor 2 v 14), is dead in his sins (Eph 2 v 1), is by nature a child of wrath (Eph 2 v 3), is at enmity with God (Eph 2 v 15), hostile to God and cannot submit to God's law (Rom 8 v 7), blinded by Satan (2 Cor 4 v 4), hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his evil deeds will be exposed (John 3 v 20). Therefore we rightfully conclude in accordance with the conditions described of the unregenerated man in Scripture that his inborn inclination is to reject God. Thanks be to God, Who appoints people to believe (Acts 13 v 48), chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph 1 v 4), predestines us to adoption (Eph 1 v 5), calls according to His purpose (2 Tim 1 v 9), chooses us for salvation (2 Thes 2 v 13), leads us to and grants us repentance (Rom 2 v 4, 2 Tim 2 v 24-25), grants the act of believing (Phil 1 v 29), works faith in the believer (John 6 v 28-29), causes us to be born again (1 Pet 1 v 3), born again not by our will, effort or desire but by His will and desire (John 1 v 12-13), grants that we come to Jesus (John 6 v 65), draws people to Himself (John 6 v 44), predestines us to salvation (Rom 8 v 29-30), and circumcises our heart (with the heart one believes [Rom 10 v 10]) as promised in Deut 30 v 6, all according to His purpose (Phil 2 v 13). The stony ground of man’s wicked heart is not good soil. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Jesus said so! (Matt 7 v 18 + 12 v 33; Luke 6 v 43). All this and more weighed against zero verses articulating the so-called “free will” of the natural man, which is a vain man-exalting philosophically based doctrine erroneously and egregiously elevated to Bible truth. Praise God and to His glory, what is impossible with man is possible with God.

 

[studier]

But, when we are told to choose life rather than death, FWers tell us that [God would not ask us to do something that we are unable to do].
The sad fact is that we ARE UNABLE to do this without being brought to newness of life!

In Deut. to choose God was to choose life.

In the NC to choose Christ is to choose life.

So, yes, the unbeliever can choose life just as Israel could choose life.

This is Paul's point in Rom10.

I'll bet you don't even know what you mean by ""FWers".

 

[Magenta]

Connecting to Post #10 801

Yeah, nothing about telling people they need to wait to be activated.

 

[Magenta]

In Deut. to choose God was to choose life.

In the NC to choose Christ is to choose life.

So, yes, the unbeliever can choose life just as Israel could choose life.

This is Paul's point in Rom10.

I'll bet you don't even know what you mean by ""FWers".

Here we are back at God commanding things of man while we are told certain men -which is probably
most- are INCAPABLE of obeying, a FACT you repeatedly refuse to deal with for obvious reasons.

And by the way, those INCAPABLE of obeying are the very ones you claim actually do. Such is the nature of your error.

You seem to wilfully ignore such things. Yes, you are free to make that choice. You do it often.

Though it is not recommended and Scripture speaks against such things.

But what do you care of what Scripture says, after all?

 

[studier]

Some apparently see free will as needing to be omniscient and omnipotent.
God has given us our own domain to reign in.
One which we are to exercise free will. Not in His domain.

precisely.

The distinction between Creator and creature discarded when convenient.

 

[cv5]

Then it seems like the definition or at least the parameters of "free" are simple to establish and the expanded philosophical and neurological noise is just to maintain desired confusion and argument.

Those who seem to value maintaining the confusion seem to me to be like those who value functioning in the darkness.

Anything to keep the con-game/hustle going.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Why don't you give us what you think is the proper definition of "freewill"?

why don't you just stick to the discussion of Scripture rather than employing your ad hominem tactics.

AI Overview​

"Ad hominem" is a Latin phrase that literally means "to the person" or "to the man". It refers to a logical fallacy where someone attacks their opponent's character or motives instead of addressing the substance of their arguments.​

​

How it works​

• Focus on the person, not the argument:​
  Instead of engaging with the merits or flaws of an idea, an ad hominem argument shifts the discussion to personal traits, emotions, or prejudices of the person making the argument.​
• Discrediting the source:​
  The aim is to discredit the opposing viewpoint by discrediting the person who is presenting it, suggesting that their argument is invalid because of who they are.​

.