Are all the spiritual gifts still active today?

[Roughsoul1991]

If yes, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

If no, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

Why are some spiritual gift lists longer than others and contain for example (music, singleness, apostle, craftsmanship, or deliverance/exorcisms)?

 

[Dino246]

Given your secondary questions, I'd have to say that's a loaded question.

If we separate out roles (Ephesians 4) and talents (music, craftsmanship, etc.) and focus on the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12, I say "Yes".

I've experienced several firsthand, witnessed others firsthand, and heard of the rest happening within my lifetime. I reject the idea that the completed canon of Scripture is the "perfect" to which 1 Corinthians 13:8 refers, and there is nothing else in Scripture suggesting that any of them have "ended".

 

[TabinRivCA]

My answer, yes they are just not promoted and certainly not enough of them. I remember watching videos of Kathryn Kuhlman who had the gift of discernment, tongues and healing. I'll never forget this one dear lady who suffered pain in her shoulder for years and had dark circles under her eyes. Ms Kuhlman gave a word and called her out. She laid hands on her (believers shall lay hands on the sick and they will recover) and the lady was instantly healed. She had tears in her eyes as she swung her arm around and said 'the pain is gone, the pain is gone'. Another couple, Charles and Frances Hunter, had a healing ministry, they both passed in 2009 & 2010. People were brought in who looked like they were minutes away from death, usually by cancer. They laid hands on them and had amazing results, about 95% recoveries. I could go on but I'll stop and say keep in mind what Jesus said '"Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father", Jn 14:12. If you want to see a real mind-blower, watch the 15 min video by R W Shambauch, 'The Boy With 26 Miracles'. Why these kind of ministries have faded, I don't know.

 

[awelight]

If yes, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

If no, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

Why are some spiritual gift lists longer than others and contain for example (music, singleness, apostle, craftsmanship, or deliverance/exorcisms)?

Why are you asking this same ole" tired question. This subject has been beat to death for years and you know that as a senior member.

It can be answered in the simplest of terms. If you are a Charismatic - you say YES. If you are not a Charismatic, then you will say some gifts are active today but the extraordinary gifts of the Apostles are not.

Since most Charismatics are as lost as a Rocky Mountain Billy goat, it should be easy to figure out where the proper stand should be. Charismatics are not interested in the Word of God and the Inerrancy of the Bible. They only interested in what they see and what they have experienced or how they feel about something, while being rocked by unholy music and reacting in the energy of the flesh.

If you hear what I am saying this day - RUN and come out from there as fast as you can.

I said the above, not to be hateful but out of a true concern for everyone hung-up in this mess.

 

[GWH]

Why are you asking this same ole" tired question. This subject has been beat to death for years and you know that as a senior member.

It can be answered in the simplest of terms. If you are a Charismatic - you say YES. If you are not a Charismatic, then you will say some gifts are active today but the extraordinary gifts of the Apostles are not.

Since most Charismatics are as lost as a Rocky Mountain Billy goat, it should be easy to figure out where the proper stand should be. Charismatics are not interested in the Word of God and the Inerrancy of the Bible. They only interested in what they see and what they have experienced or how they feel about something, while being rocked by unholy music and reacting in the energy of the flesh.

If you hear what I am saying this day - RUN and come out from there as fast as you can.

I said the above, not to be hateful but out of a true concern for everyone hung-up in this mess.

I agree with your concern, which is why I urge everyone to agree regarding the essential Gospel/Creed (God's requirement for salvation or the "kerygma") and do not quarrel about secondary doctrines or beliefs. My proposal is that the kerygma/GRFS should be every Christian’s creed, and only belief in this crucial truth should be viewed as a test for orthodoxy or heresy. As Paul wrote in Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines. (If any judgment is made, it should begin with a self-examination per Matt. 7:1&5, 2Cor. 13:5-8).

A major reason many Christians throughout history have not manifested the love and unity of God’s Spirit (Eph. 4:3) as well as they should is because of failure to realize this truth. If they did, it would free them to speak honestly and fellowship without becoming unduly upset about relatively minor issues. They would receive God’s blessing as peacemakers, who draw inclusive circles around people based on the kerygma rather than denominational lines between them due to didachaic differences. Jesus prayed for spiritual unity (cf. John 17:20-23, “May they be one…”). Thus, unity regarding the Gospel is more important than accuracy regarding doctrinal details.

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with all who truly accept/love Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven after Christ returns at God’s resurrection of all saved souls when everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

 

[homwardbound]

If yes, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

If no, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

Why are some spiritual gift lists longer than others and contain for example (music, singleness, apostle, craftsmanship, or deliverance/exorcisms)?

1 Corinthians 13:8-13

Authorized (King James) Version



8 Charity never faileth: but whether there beprophecies, they shall fail; whether there betongues, they shall cease; whether there beknowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

 

[awelight]

I agree with your concern, which is why I urge everyone to agree regarding the essential Gospel/Creed (God's requirement for salvation or the "kerygma") and do not quarrel about secondary doctrines or beliefs. My proposal is that the kerygma/GRFS should be every Christian’s creed, and only belief in this crucial truth should be viewed as a test for orthodoxy or heresy. As Paul wrote in Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines. (If any judgment is made, it should begin with a self-examination per Matt. 7:1&5, 2Cor. 13:5-8).

A major reason many Christians throughout history have not manifested the love and unity of God’s Spirit (Eph. 4:3) as well as they should is because of failure to realize this truth. If they did, it would free them to speak honestly and fellowship without becoming unduly upset about relatively minor issues. They would receive God’s blessing as peacemakers, who draw inclusive circles around people based on the kerygma rather than denominational lines between them due to didachaic differences. Jesus prayed for spiritual unity (cf. John 17:20-23, “May they be one…”). Thus, unity regarding the Gospel is more important than accuracy regarding doctrinal details.

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with all who truly accept/love Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven after Christ returns at God’s resurrection of all saved souls when everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

Thanks for your reply and the interesting points you are making.

While agree with many of the things you laid out on the subject of the Gospel, I was pulled up short on a couple of points you made. Hopefully, they just need further clarification.

The first concern I have is with the following statement:

• There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.

Define what you meant by "morally accountable human beings"? Surely you are not suggesting what this sentence seems to indicate. What person is morally accountable, in any good sense, apart from Christ's Righteousness imputed to that person's account, the person would be morally bankrupt. We are all sinners - saved and unsaved alike. As long as we live in these vessels, sin will always be a reality. Our righteousness before God is an old stinky rag. Our personal morality will always be short of God's standard. Your statement, makes it sound like you are suggesting that God rewards morally "good" people with salvation.

If you meant morally accountable, as in each and every human being will have to give account - then I would agree. However, I don't understand why you phrased it like you did because it implies that some human beings are not accountable to God.

The second concern is in this statement: Thus, unity regarding the Gospel is more important than accuracy regarding doctrinal details.

I agree that when a person comes into the sphere of grace, the union with Christ is based upon - Hearing, Believing, Conviction and Repentance, bringing that person to Trust, Love, Proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. But what does that person hear? DOCTRINE.

One must understand the fall of mankind. One must understand sin. One must understand the need for Justification before a just God. All of these things are the teaching of proper Theological doctrines. One must understand who Jesus Christ is; thus, the need for Christology. One can profess belief in Jesus Christ but what if the Jesus Christ he professes is not the one of the Bible? In order for us to have "unity" of the Spirit, it must, by necessity, be unified around sound doctrine.

Acts 1:14a These all with one accord continued steadfast in prayer
Php 2:1,2 If there is therefore any exhortation in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any tender mercies and compassions, (2) make full my joy, that ye be of the same mind, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind;

One accord and one mind is based upon doctrinal teaching. Doctrinal details are what we unify around. For it is within them that we have unity about the great truths taught throughout Scripture. Doctrine is always in the forefront of good teaching, shinning a greater light upon God's overall plan and the need of a Savior.

1Ti 6:3-5 If any man teaches a different doctrine, and consents not to sound words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; (4) he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but doting about questionings and disputes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmising, (5) wrangling of men corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, supposing that godliness is a way of gain.
2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts;
Tit 2:1 But speak thou the things which befit the sound doctrine:

If unity was not based on sound doctrine then what would it be based upon? Objective Truth revealed promotes unity - subjective truth creates chaos.

 

[GWH]

If yes, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

If no, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

Why are some spiritual gift lists longer than others and contain for example (music, singleness, apostle, craftsmanship, or deliverance/exorcisms)?

I believe every human ability is given by God and may be exercised for good or selfishly (1Cor. 4:7, 2Cor. 2:17).
I have seen no convincing evidence of sign or miracle gifts such as verified instant healing and speaking unlearned languages.
I believe my gifts include love (Rom. 5:5), logic (Acts 17:17), editing, learning (2Tim. 3:15-17) and harmonizing GW (Matt. 4:4&7).

 

[TabinRivCA]

Why are you asking this same ole" tired question. This subject has been beat to death for years and you know that as a senior member.

It can be answered in the simplest of terms. If you are a Charismatic - you say YES. If you are not a Charismatic, then you will say some gifts are active today but the extraordinary gifts of the Apostles are not.

Since most Charismatics are as lost as a Rocky Mountain Billy goat, it should be easy to figure out where the proper stand should be. Charismatics are not interested in the Word of God and the Inerrancy of the Bible. They only interested in what they see and what they have experienced or how they feel about something, while being rocked by unholy music and reacting in the energy of the flesh.

If you hear what I am saying this day - RUN and come out from there as fast as you can.

I said the above, not to be hateful but out of a true concern for everyone hung-up in this mess.

Mark 6:6 says that Jesus “marveled because of their unbelief.” Despite their great opportunity and the overwhelming evidence, they not only disbelieved but refused to trust in Him
The exact number of miracles Jesus performed isn't stated in the Bible, but the four Gospels record 37 distinct miracles performed by him, ranging from healing the sick and raising the dead to controlling natural elements. The Bible itself suggests that many more miracles were performed, as John's Gospel concludes by saying that not even the world could contain all the books that could be written about his deeds
Jesus states in John 14:12 that believers will do "the works I do, and greater works than these will he do." This passage explains that because Jesus is returning to the Father, the Holy Spirit will empower believers to continue His mission.

 

[resto]

If yes, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

If no, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

Why are some spiritual gift lists longer than others and contain for example (music, singleness, apostle, craftsmanship, or deliverance/exorcisms)?

"The Gifts And The Calling Are Without Repentance" so I would think that the Gifts are still around. I would also think that "The Church" is still around, based on what I see of Israel. Finding "The Church" seems to be the Issue with me.

 

[ResidentAlien]

If no, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

You don't really need Biblical evidence; all you have to do is examine the real-world evidence. How many of the claims of the miraculous can be verified? What I see are people making a lot of claims that can't be substantiated. So are all the gifts still active today? Based on what I've witnessed I'd have to say no. Could God still give someone a true spiritual gift to do the miraculous if He wanted to? Absolutely.

 

[awelight]

Mark 6:6 says that Jesus “marveled because of their unbelief.” Despite their great opportunity and the overwhelming evidence, they not only disbelieved but refused to trust in Him
The exact number of miracles Jesus performed isn't stated in the Bible, but the four Gospels record 37 distinct miracles performed by him, ranging from healing the sick and raising the dead to controlling natural elements. The Bible itself suggests that many more miracles were performed, as John's Gospel concludes by saying that not even the world could contain all the books that could be written about his deeds
Jesus states in John 14:12 that believers will do "the works I do, and greater works than these will he do." This passage explains that because Jesus is returning to the Father, the Holy Spirit will empower believers to continue His mission.

The first thing I would suggest to anyone who has saving grace and might be caught up in the Charismatic movement, is this - Slow your roll and take a breath. Take the earnest time to look into the founders of this movement. I don't mean a casual glance but do some real research. You will find that those who started this movement and those that took over afterwards were real charlatans. Several were arrested for fraud and two were arrested for immoral conduct and one for sodomy with a young boy. Almost all of them were heretics. I could give you the names and dates but I think I will just let you do the leg work if your really interested.

Secondly, no Bible believer would deny the signs and healings that Jesus Christ did in His earthly ministry or those done by the Apostles. Yet, conveniently, Charismatics never look into the reasons for these things in Christ's life and the early church days. They always take a passage out of context and run with it.

The purpose of Christ doing miracles before the Jews, was to authenticate who He said He was.

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the works that I do in my Father's name, these bear witness of me.
John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
John 10:38 But if I do them, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.

This same exact reason is why the Holy Spirit empowered the young church at Pentecost. For these men were going into strange gentile held lands and the gentiles needed to see God's validation upon them, that they indeed spoke on behalf of the one true God.

You mentioned John 14:12 - But you do not take into consideration the audience in this conversation. These words were not spoken to a crowd, they were intended only for the eleven disciples in the room, who would become Apostles later. As a mater of fact, Judas was dismissed from the room before Christ made these declarations, proving just how particular the audience was for this message.

However, there are aspects of what the Lord said that are not applicable in this age for ordinary believers. Rather, they will find there fruition in the age when the Kingdom shall be established on earth. When we, as Saints, are perfected and glorified, then indeed we shall do works greater than what Christ demonstrated in His earthly ministry because we will be sinless and in complete harmony with God's will.

Look at John 14:14 - If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do. No one could be so foolish as to think that applies to us today. We have no idea what the will of the Father is for us from one day to the next.

Rom 8:26 And in like manner the Spirit also helps with our weaknesses: for we know not how to pray as we ought; but the Spirit himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered;
Rom 8:27 and he that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because he makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. (Not as we desired)

 

[awelight]

"The Gifts And The Calling Are Without Repentance" so I would think that the Gifts are still around. I would also think that "The Church" is still around, based on what I see of Israel. Finding "The Church" seems to be the Issue with me.

Just wanting to be helpful here, so please take it in that light.

Your statement: "The Gifts And The Calling Are Without Repentance" Which is from Romans 11:29, has nothing to do with spiritual gifts, according to the context. The "gifts" and "calling" being mentioned here, are related to the subject of salvation. Placing great emphasis on the fact that God's gifts, (Mercy, Compassion, Election and Justification), as well as, His calling, are irrevocable.

 

[resto]

Just wanting to be helpful here, so please take it in that light.

Your statement: "The Gifts And The Calling Are Without Repentance" Which is from Romans 11:29, has nothing to do with spiritual gifts, according to the context. The "gifts" and "calling" being mentioned here, are related to the subject of salvation. Placing great emphasis on the fact that God's gifts, (Mercy, Compassion, Election and Justification), as well as, His calling, are irrevocable.

If the work "Gifts" is Plural how many Salvations are there? Not Buying.

 

[TabinRivCA]

The first thing I would suggest to anyone who has saving grace and might be caught up in the Charismatic movement, is this - Slow your roll and take a breath. Take the earnest time to look into the founders of this movement. I don't mean a casual glance but do some real research. You will find that those who started this movement and those that took over afterwards were real charlatans. Several were arrested for fraud and two were arrested for immoral conduct and one for sodomy with a young boy. Almost all of them were heretics. I could give you the names and dates but I think I will just let you do the leg work if your really interested.

Secondly, no Bible believer would deny the signs and healings that Jesus Christ did in His earthly ministry or those done by the Apostles. Yet, conveniently, Charismatics never look into the reasons for these things in Christ's life and the early church days. They always take a passage out of context and run with it.

The purpose of Christ doing miracles before the Jews, was to authenticate who He said He was.

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the works that I do in my Father's name, these bear witness of me.
John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
John 10:38 But if I do them, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.

This same exact reason is why the Holy Spirit empowered the young church at Pentecost. For these men were going into strange gentile held lands and the gentiles needed to see God's validation upon them, that they indeed spoke on behalf of the one true God.

You mentioned John 14:12 - But you do not take into consideration the audience in this conversation. These words were not spoken to a crowd, they were intended only for the eleven disciples in the room, who would become Apostles later. As a mater of fact, Judas was dismissed from the room before Christ made these declarations, proving just how particular the audience was for this message.

However, there are aspects of what the Lord said that are not applicable in this age for ordinary believers. Rather, they will find there fruition in the age when the Kingdom shall be established on earth. When we, as Saints, are perfected and glorified, then indeed we shall do works greater than what Christ demonstrated in His earthly ministry because we will be sinless and in complete harmony with God's will.

Look at John 14:14 - If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do. No one could be so foolish as to think that applies to us today. We have no idea what the will of the Father is for us from one day to the next.

Rom 8:26 And in like manner the Spirit also helps with our weaknesses: for we know not how to pray as we ought; but the Spirit himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered;
Rom 8:27 and he that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because he makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. (Not as we desired)

Then are you denouncing the great healers such as Smith Wigglesworth, K Hagin Sr, Charles and Frances Hunter, K Kuhlman and so forth? They all had tremendous healing ministries and many through the Holy Ghost's direction. When we are 'in Christ', we are in the anointing (the Spirit) and as Jesus said 'IF you believe all thing are possible'. I don't even get why someone would want to put a damper on these gifts, unless they were from our enemy, which I don't think you are.

 

[SomeDisciple]

The continuationist is not going to try and turn stones into bread for you; the biblical evidence is the bible, and pulling some random historical example out of the unverifiable body of 'christian lore' is unlikely to satisfy anyone.

I have no doubt that most cessationists today had it taught to them by some "pastor" and never bothered to question it (just as there are "charismatic pastors" teaching their misconceptions about gifts). Because I know what they say- and it sounds really good- they frame it like having faith without them is somehow better; and frame the continuationist postition as having faith dependent on God giving them a gift. But the reality is that this is nonsense; just as the arguments cessationists try to make out of scripture are nonsense.

 

[homwardbound]

If the work "Gifts" is Plural how many Salvations are there? Not Buying.

Given by God Father in risen Son, everything needed for new life and godliness. Me as dead, God as alive John 4:23-24

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

If yes, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

If no, what is your Biblical and historical evidence?

Why are some spiritual gift lists longer than others and contain for example (music, singleness, apostle, craftsmanship, or deliverance/exorcisms)?

Yes, but I don't feel like getting into this topic right now.

 

[Blain]

I have not found anywhere in scripture that the gifts have ceased. the only one that would even imply it is 1st Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it shall pass

And the perfect being made perfect argument is vague at best and never specifically says what this perfect is in that text but if you read the entire chapter Paul explains he is speaking of us being made perfect after this life.

So really there is no evidence to suggest that the gifts have ceased

 

[Blade]

Look at Christ all He did and all left Him. So some "Biblical and historical evidence " will do what? We hear people die some for over a hour and come back to life and its no big deal. About 400 of us saw a woman blind in JESUS name..oh she cried shouted screamed yet nothing in the paper... all these years later.

Its simple you read what GOD said and believe that's it. Its not GODS word telling us its stopped its man telling us "what that verse really means is". At some point you alone believe or not. I don't believe because I seen .. I just believe and get out of His way.