Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

I have been wanting to explore this idea of Adam's connection to the natural world for some time, the natural world being what he was made of, and the stated source of Adam's desire of the flesh, eyes, pride of life etc, and so why he sinned, would you agree?

Eve was the one who desired the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ... she saw ... pleasant to the eyes ... desired to make one wise:

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Adam willingly ate of the fruit at the behest of his wife ... Adam followed the commandment in Gen 2:24.

Adam did have access to the Tree of Life but chose death over that. I do wonder if he feared death, for later, fear of death is given as the reason for man's bondage to sin, and if so, why not just eat of the Tree of Life?

fear of death is not the reason for man's bondage to sin ...

death is the result of man's bondage to sin. however, even if a person could go his or her lifetime without sinning ... that still would not save him or her from the lake of fire ... salvation is wholly by grace through faith.

And salvation is freely given to those who believe the gospel of Christ:

Romans 1:16-19 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness
.

 

[Magenta]

There many many scriptures centred around Gods will,

There's hundreds in fact, I know this as it's something I've took an interest to in the past.

Being Willing to do is will isn't exactly completely free will.

And again that can't be done alone.

It is God Who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose. Apart from Me you can do nothing. No word from God will ever fail. “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

 

[cv5]

but who is capable of making what choices.

And who do the super-determinists say is who?

Themselves. Exclusively. And no one else. The destination to which your circular arguments inevitably arrive.

Sure this underlying premise is glossed over with terms like "sovereignty" and "grace" and stuff like that. But to the seasoned Bible student.....it is blatantly apparent.

 

[cv5]

nope it isn't as you still need his guidance

You actually meant your guidance.....right?

 

[Jordon]

It isn't?
I'll stick with what He said thanks.

You do know your bound to righteousness to ?

It's Diffacult to know exactly where your coming from , coz on one hand you in form us you don't like self determinists, but on the other hand your in favour of determining mankind is already enabled to do the will of the father before there saved if I'm correct in your line of thinking ? Is that without his guidance or with may I ask ?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I am Jewish that can trace our Ancestry before 70 AD.

Scripture does not speak well of a prideful man......................

you think it's "prideful" to trace lineage back to whenever?

what think you of the verses concerning the lineage of the Lord Jesus Christ? ... was God "prideful" because He revealed the lineage of the Lord Jesus Christ back to Adam?

smh ...
.

 

[Jordon]

You actually meant your guidance.....right?

nope.

 

[Jordon]

You actually meant your guidance.....right?

honestly I've spent many hours here today. If u could stop making silly assumptions that would' be good

 

[reneweddaybyday]

why didn't he just obey God rather than following in the footsteps of Eve?

he did ... ever read Gen 2:24?
.

 

[lrs68]

it could just mean one thing, but seeing as God for knows everything and is the keeper of all time. He will know who to choose and even before the foundations of the whole world.

But another point here is, if you do think it's just relating to one group only. That still doesn't take away that he was able to choose before the foundations of the world.

That core tennants here is it clearly states he was able to.

God begins with His Chosen People the ancient Hebrew Jews with whom is also God chose for the original Text [Torah and Tanakh]. Paul speaks about it a lot including himself as part of those people. So it's not some wild guess but it's listed in the Bible several times before Jesus arrived on the scene.

 

[lrs68]

Scripture does not speak well of a prideful man......................

Is it prideful to say one is Jewish, Irish, Welsh, whatever?

 

[Magenta]

You do know your bound to righteousness to ?

It's Diffacult to know exactly where your coming from , coz on one hand you in form us you don't like self determinists, but on the other hand your in favour of determining mankind is already enabled to do the will of the father before there saved if I'm correct in your line of thinking ? Is that without his guidance or with may I ask ?

He is one who has claimed that for God to act unilaterally makes Him
an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their will.
He has said other quite blasphemous things about God also.

 

[Jordon]

God begins with His Chosen People the ancient Hebrew Jews with whom is also God chose for the original Text [Torah and Tanakh]. Paul speaks about it a lot including himself as part of those people. So it's not some wild guess but it's listed in the Bible several times before Jesus arrived on the scene.

It's upto you to how you believe, but many times more over one scriptures makes you search for other scriptures to find a meaning.

In the scripture you've mentioned the term he chose us before the foundations of the word has implementations in many places not just one.

So it wouldn't be wise for me to just lean on just one conclusion,

 

[Magenta]

From Ephesians 1 verses 4-6 ~ He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One.

 

[Magenta]

2 Timothy 1 verse 9~ He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began. Ephesians 1 verses 4-5~ He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will. Ephesians 1 verse 11~ In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will.

 

[Jordon]

He is one who has claimed that for God to act unilaterally makes Him
an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their will.
He has said other quite blasphemous things about God also.

It sounds he favours independence unilaterally, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes round town shouting follow me thinking he's moses

 

[Magenta]

The LORD of Hosts has sworn: “Surely, as I have planned, so will it be; as I have purposed, so will it stand.” Isaiah 14 verse 24 The counsel of the LORD stands forever, the purposes of His heart to all generations. Psalm 33 verse 11 Our God is in heaven; He does as He pleases. Psalm 115 verse 3 Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. Proverbs 19 verse 21 In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will. Ephesians 1 verse 11 And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. Romans 8 verses 28-30 For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will. Ephesians 1 verses 4-5

 

[Magenta]

It sounds he favours independence unilaterally, I would be surprised if he goes round town shouting follow me thinking he's moses

"Free will" is an idol to these folks. They throw over a plethora of Scriptures to cling to it.

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if Adam ... instead of eating ... what would have happened if Adam had called on His Father rather than taking things into his own hands. Waste of time, really, because we can't put the toothpaste back in the tube ... just some pondering I do every now and again ...
.

Yes I’ve wondered the same and notices Adam was on the garden with the tree of life then he was tempted and sinned and cast out . But I noticed Jesus is promising us entrance into the paradise of god and the right to eat of the tree of life

sort of Adams transgression led here

“So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But Christ overcoming leads here

“Blessed are they that do his commandments, ( like Adam did not ) that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:14‬ ‭

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Adam set us off course Christ came to bring us back on course

 

[Magenta]

John 3 v 20-21 ~ Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.