So are you saying we can't understand it so don't try?
Um, He sent you a Bible. Is that a parable too? Is it or is it not, God's word?
Why God the Father considered this fruit as forbidden?
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So are you saying we can't understand it so don't try?
Um, He sent you a Bible. Is that a parable too? Is it or is it not, God's word?
.
● Gen 2:15-17 . .The Lord God took the man and placed him in the garden
of Eden, to till it and tend it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying:
Of every tree of the garden you are free to eat; but as for the tree of
knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for in the day you eat of
it, you shall die.
That passage is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead
the very day he tasted the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to
live outside the garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his
son Seth (Gen 5:4).
The first thing to point out is that in order for his maker's warning to
resonate in Adam's thinking; it had to be related to death as he
understood death in his own day rather than death as modern Sunday
school classes construe it in their day. In other words: the man's concept of
death was primitive, i.e. normal and natural rather than allegorical, spiritual,
and/or philosophical.
Adam was created in the image and likeness of God, so I think it safe to
assume he came into existence with perpetual youth. As far as can be
known from scripture, no other form of life was created in the image and
likeness of God, so I think it safe to assume the animal kingdom and the
world of vegetation was all meant to be expendable.
That being the case, then I think it's safe to assume that death was common
all around Adam by means of vegetation, birds, bugs, and beasts so that
it wasn't a strange new word in his vocabulary; i.e. God didn't have to take a
moment and define death for Adam seeing as how it was doubtless a
common occurrence in his everyday life.
So I think we can be reasonably confident that Adam was up to speed on
at least the natural aspects of death and fully understood that if he went
ahead and tasted the forbidden fruit that his body would lose its perpetual
youth and end up drying in the sun like road kill; so to speak.
In other words; had Adam not eaten of the forbidden tree, he would've
remained in perfect health but the very day that he tasted its fruit, his body
became infected with mortality, i.e. he lost perpetual youth and began to
age; a condition easily remedied by the tree of life but alas, the man was
denied access to it.
As we all know, from the normal round of human experience: the aging process
is a lingering, walking death rather than a sudden death, i.e. mortality is slow,
but very relentless-- it feels neither pain nor pity, nor remorse nor fear; it cannot
be reasoned with, nor can it be bargained with, and it absolutely will not stop--
ever! --until our body is so broken down that it cannot continue.
_
● Gen 2:15-17 . .The Lord God took the man and placed him in the garden
of Eden, to till it and tend it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying:
Of every tree of the garden you are free to eat; but as for the tree of
knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for in the day you eat of
it, you shall die.
That passage is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead
the very day he tasted the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to
live outside the garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his
son Seth (Gen 5:4).
The first thing to point out is that in order for his maker's warning to
resonate in Adam's thinking; it had to be related to death as he
understood death in his own day rather than death as modern Sunday
school classes construe it in their day. In other words: the man's concept of
death was primitive, i.e. normal and natural rather than allegorical, spiritual,
and/or philosophical.
Adam was created in the image and likeness of God, so I think it safe to
assume he came into existence with perpetual youth. As far as can be
known from scripture, no other form of life was created in the image and
likeness of God, so I think it safe to assume the animal kingdom and the
world of vegetation was all meant to be expendable.
That being the case, then I think it's safe to assume that death was common
all around Adam by means of vegetation, birds, bugs, and beasts so that
it wasn't a strange new word in his vocabulary; i.e. God didn't have to take a
moment and define death for Adam seeing as how it was doubtless a
common occurrence in his everyday life.
So I think we can be reasonably confident that Adam was up to speed on
at least the natural aspects of death and fully understood that if he went
ahead and tasted the forbidden fruit that his body would lose its perpetual
youth and end up drying in the sun like road kill; so to speak.
In other words; had Adam not eaten of the forbidden tree, he would've
remained in perfect health but the very day that he tasted its fruit, his body
became infected with mortality, i.e. he lost perpetual youth and began to
age; a condition easily remedied by the tree of life but alas, the man was
denied access to it.
As we all know, from the normal round of human experience: the aging process
is a lingering, walking death rather than a sudden death, i.e. mortality is slow,
but very relentless-- it feels neither pain nor pity, nor remorse nor fear; it cannot
be reasoned with, nor can it be bargained with, and it absolutely will not stop--
ever! --until our body is so broken down that it cannot continue.
_
Yes a conflict between good and evil is now part of man’s understanding and perception of the world thier “ knowledge “ is now good and evil which are polar opposites .
before that they were already made in gods image and there was no conflict within them , until satan said “ did god really say that ? You will not surely die you will become as gods knowing good and evil “
they became as “ gods to know good and evil and become conflicted between the two . “ and then we’re sepereted forst when they hid themselves from his presence and after when he cast them out of his presence in Eden with the other tree they could have eaten from the tree of life.
“be holy as I am holy “ is t an impossible demand ….its God calling man to go back to what they were before the deception and subsequent sin and death . To the knowledge of the very good and blessing man giving them the earth and gods grace which man was created for and in and by and God teaching man by his word and presence from thier new creation as he was teaching Adam before the fall .
and not the knowledge conflicted of good and evil but the knowledge before that when light and darkness were separated and then man was created in his image and likeness and given dominion ….we’re going to end up where mankind began but continue where Adam failed and Christ succeeded
My comments in post No.114 are "maybe" and "might be" In other words:
they're meant to be taken as suggestions.
_
I don't understand why posters continue to speak of it being death in the flesh when that is totally wrong.
Death is separation. A physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death, which is of greater significance, is the separation of the soul from God. In Genesis 2:17 God tells Adam that in the day he eats of the forbidden fruit he will “surely die.” Adam does fall, but his physical death does not occur immediately; God must have had another type of death in mind—spiritual death. This separation from God is exactly what we see in Genesis 3:8, When Adam and Eve heard the voice of the Lord, they “hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God.” The fellowship had been broken. They were spiritually dead.
Death is separation. A physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death, which is of greater significance, is the separation of the soul from God. In Genesis 2:17 God tells Adam that in the day he eats of the forbidden fruit he will “surely die.” Adam does fall, but his physical death does not occur immediately; God must have had another type of death in mind—spiritual death. This separation from God is exactly what we see in Genesis 3:8, When Adam and Eve heard the voice of the Lord, they “hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God.” The fellowship had been broken. They were spiritually dead.
Yes, Adam would have lived forever if he didn't fall. This did separate man and God because of the sin of Disobedience. Adam's soul did not die but Adam's spirit did die that day and that made it so they had no covering of light the way God does so they could see that they was naked and felt the urge to cover themselves and their shame. Who wants to go around with their buttocks showing?! No One! I hate those hospital gowns with no snaps,
Then when Jesus came and shed His blood for us to take our punishment so that we might live. Then we repented and believed we became born again and God put a new spirit in us and a new heart. The old spirit died. (Who said the OT doesn't speak on the gospel?!) This is the promise of becoming spiritually alive again!
Ezekiel 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them..../KJV
And it is the new spirit within us that makes us spiritually alive again. It's written in a different scripture that we will worship Him in spirit and in truth. God is a spirit. You are too if you are born again. So that passage, ye shall surely die in the day that you eat of it. But not in the flesh, in spirit. Spiritually.
He gave us a new spirit because He won the victory and we are to enforce the victory until He comes, and overcome our flesh and our soul man to be the dominant one that is wise because he obeys God.
.
● Gen 1:26-27 . . And God said: Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness. So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created
He him.
I feel pretty certain, that were I to run across that verse as a curiosity
seeker who knew nothing about Christianity or Judaism, that my first
impression would be that God had help creating Man, and that the help He
employed bore the image and likeness of God the same as they were getting
ready to create Man.
The author of that verse was a holy man inspired to word it just like it is, but
a secular editor might prefer to revise the language and grammar a bit to
have it come out like this:
● Gen 1:26-27 . . And God said; Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness. So they created man in their own image and likeness.
_
● Gen 1:26-27 . . And God said: Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness. So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created
He him.
I feel pretty certain, that were I to run across that verse as a curiosity
seeker who knew nothing about Christianity or Judaism, that my first
impression would be that God had help creating Man, and that the help He
employed bore the image and likeness of God the same as they were getting
ready to create Man.
The author of that verse was a holy man inspired to word it just like it is, but
a secular editor might prefer to revise the language and grammar a bit to
have it come out like this:
● Gen 1:26-27 . . And God said; Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness. So they created man in their own image and likeness.
_
.
According to Rom 5:12-21, Adam's entire posterity became collateral damage
in the forbidden fruit event. So had the Word's alter ego Jesus not died of
crucifixion, he would've eventually passed away of old age and/or any number
of other causes.
_
According to Rom 5:12-21, Adam's entire posterity became collateral damage
in the forbidden fruit event. So had the Word's alter ego Jesus not died of
crucifixion, he would've eventually passed away of old age and/or any number
of other causes.
_
It self explains itself. Mans brain was never able to decide good or evil. That's God's job.
If in Man's clearly understanding dead people are those found in Morgue and in Cemetery.
But God the Father since he is Speaking in Parables. The dead people in his eyes are people who are alive in our eyes.
PROVERBS 21:16
16 The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead.
In the case of Adam & Eve. The day they ate the forbidden fruit they were drove out away from the Tree of Life (Tree of Life is God's way of understanding of Good & Evil).
Adam & Eve from then applied their own understanding in Good & Evil.
And it is impossible for Adam & Eve to eat the fruit of the Tree of Life because God the Father deployed a Cherubin to guard the Tree of Life and he placed a flaming sword so that Adam & Eve could not even go near in the Tree of Life.
GENESIS 3:22-24
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
K
kqr_anointed
Guest
In this scenario perhaps you have noticed that the Serpent doesn't believe that God the Father is Speaking in Parables.
Serpent belief that God the Father is Speaking clearly as what Man's understanding.
When the warning of God reached to the knowledge of the Serpent (Genesis 2:17). He opposed the warning of God the Father (Genesis 3:4-5). Because the serpent belief that God the Father is not Speaking in Parables. That is why he said "You Shall not Surely Die". The Serpent understanding to a dead people are those found in Morgue & Cemetery too.
Gonna match you on that one right there....
We'll get Jesus to be the arbiter since He was there....
From what I make of the incident, Eve was immune to the effects of the
forbidden fruit. In point of fact had she never tasted the fruit Eve would've
eventually died anyway because according to Rom 5:12-21 it was God's will
and purpose that if sin and death were to come into the world, they would
do so by the actions of one man working solo just as righteous and life
came into the world by the actions of one man working solo. In other words;
Eve was collateral damage the same as all the rest of Adam's posterity.
BTW: It's commonly believed among conventional Christians that the effects
of the original sin are transferred from generation to generation by means of
heredity. But Eve was fully constructed with material taken from Adam's
body prior to his tasting the forbidden fruit so it was impossible for him to
transfer the effects of the original sin to her by means of heredity.
According to Rom 5:12-21 everybody became collateral damage in the
incident all at once instead of each in his own time, viz: it appears to me
that we were all marked for death before we were even born and regardless
of whether we would ever do anything either good or bad.
_