He didn't advocate for the Pharisees. He didn't share the gospel. Spoke in parables because they could not understand. He wasn't their Savior. Guess all doesn't actually include all humanity.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
If that is the typical super-determinist mindset regarding these matters of God's long-suffering and kindness and mercy......God help you all.
I'd look at Jews from Asia at Pentecost Acts2:9; possibly Jews who scattered after Stephen was killed; possibly Apollos, Aquila & Priscilla per Acts18.
I'd also remind of "argument from silence". God knows.
Too bizarre. The whole "free will" argument is one from silence. Zero verses to support it. Absolutely none!
Juxtaposed against dozens of verses that support what you oppose. Dozens! But what do you care? Not a whit.
Sad. Which is why we see the calvies NEVER sharing the gospel.
A little research.........ALL people who met the Lord Jesus Christ Received His Gospel.
This is truly madness to have BELIEVERS so inclined to hinder His Gospel to others.
"Many" is also inclusive (e.g. 'there are many people in the world') or exclusive (e.g. 'there are many Americans in the world').
If we're still dealing with a few examples from Matthew and one from Hebrews, the answer really comes from Paul in verses I listed previously.
And, as I showed briefly, the real answers IMO are in Rom5 where Paul juxtaposes Adam and Jesus dealing with not only the eschatological depth of what Jesus is turning around, but succinctly Paul is dealing with the New Federal Headship of Jesus Christ and the old reign of death in Adam vs. the new reign of Grace in Jesus Christ and of those who receive Him (a word that has been dealt with extensively in this thread).
This Federal Headship topic is worded in terms of 'the one & the many" which is both a distinctly Biblical and even idiomatic terminology and is also deeply philosophical. In Headship language the one represents the many and the many is all.
We can't expect agenda-driven theology to get into or accept this but it's a well-known study. And the various uses of "many" is obviously not just Hebrew or Aramaic or Greek.
Always the appeal to emotionalism. I said nothing about sharing the gospel in general. If all humanity is included in all, Jesus would have shared the good news with all. But He doesn't claim to have done so. In Matthew 9, Jesus says He came for the sick. I wonder why He left off the well if He is their Savior. Odd, no? Why doesn't He say He came for all?
No. The spiritually dead - and everyone is spiritually dead before becoming saved/born again- cannot believe the truth. True belief accompanies spiritual life not spiritual death, but life is only given by God, not by man. Observe in the verses following, those in them played no part whatsoever in the receiving of spiritual life: they were dead in sin, but God, by His grace and mercy alone, gave them spiritual life, period. They contributed nothing whatsoever to it - solely being recipients. The spiritually dead, being spiritually dead - just as physically dead are physically dead- cannot give anything to themselves - therefore, the dead are completely at God's mercy for life, utterly unable to give it to themselves. And as dead, neither can they give to themselves true faith nor belief.
But He does give them freely to those chosen from before the foundation of the world.
[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you[hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Eph 2:5 KJV] 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;
[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with[G4862] him, having forgiven you all trespasses
The question of whether we truly have free will, or if our choices are limited and guided by things beyond our control, is one that the Bible does address, though often in a way that shows both human responsibility and God’s sovereignty.
First, Scripture makes clear that God gave mankind the ability to choose. In the garden, Adam and Eve were commanded not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God said: “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die”(Genesis 2:16–17 NKJV). Here, the freedom to obey or disobey is placed before them. Their choice brought consequences, showing that humans are accountable for what they decide.
Moses later set the same principle before Israel: “I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live”(Deuteronomy 30:19 NKJV). This shows that while God presents the options, man must decide which path to take.
Jesus Himself also highlighted human responsibility in choice. When speaking to Jerusalem, He said: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!” (Matthew 23:37 NKJV). Here, Christ reveals that people’s unwillingness kept them from receiving His protection and blessing.
On the other hand, the Bible also shows that human freedom operates within limits. Jesus declared: “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin” (John 8:34 NKJV). This means that while we make choices, sin holds people in bondage, restricting their true freedom. Only through Christ can one be freed to walk rightly: “Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed” (John 8:36 NKJV).
Jesus told His disciples: “Without Me you can do nothing” (John 15:5 NKJV). This doesn’t mean humans cannot act at all, but that without His life and Spirit, they cannot truly bring forth fruit pleasing to God. Our will exists, but it is weak and limited without God’s guidance and strength.
So, the Bible supports both sides of the thought: yes, man can and must make choices, but those choices are never unlimited. They are framed by our fallen nature, by sin’s power, and by the sovereign will of God. The Lord sets the options before us, and He calls us to choose life, yet He also shows us that without His help, our so-called “freedom” is quickly swallowed up by sin.
In short, we do not have absolute free will, but we do have real responsibility. The Bible presents freedom as something that can only be complete when aligned with God’s will, for only then do our choices lead to life instead of destruction.
FW's mascot
Calvies mascot
The Son is the image of the invisible God because he is filled with the Father's Holy Spirit, which means the the Father resides in the Son and tells him what to do and say. In Genesis, when God said let us make man in our own image, he didn't mean physical image. And, He didn't mean just at the time of creation of man, but throughout the history of manking. We are in the image of God when He resides in our being to direct our thoughts, hearts, motivation, and actions.
Verses? No, but the free will crowd has much more than mere verses. We comprehend (rightly) the vast sweeping epic narratives concerning the relationship between angels, God and man throughout history from the beginning of time and creation until now.
We rightly understand prophecy as well..... including the inevitable glorious future for Israel and our rapture BTW.
It's the super-determinists that quibble about what "many" really means. And cannot get "natural man" right no matter how much ink is spilt.
And note how they kick Israel (the elder brother) to the curb and denounce the first man Adam. Pretty horrible really.
The super-determinists have my pity. But not my advocacy.
The super-determinists just LOVE to repeat the term "dead". Over and over again. I guess that it gives them a thrill.
I much prefer "alive". Gives me a thrill.
I think its been mentioned before. When John see Jesus walking and say behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. For instance what group was that directed at?
Try convincing the townsfolk of Sodom and Gomorrah that God loved and prays for them.
I see. From this verse alone, we can only speculate at the meaning. We would need to look at the particular words used, see how they are used elsewhere in scripture, and consider what the Bible teaches on the whole throughout.