Israel.

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2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:
That doesn't mean they never sinned. They still made sacrifices for their sins to God such that the were viewed by God as being perfect.

The only person that never sinned and didn't need to make sacrifices for their sin is our Lord Jesus.


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“That doesn't mean they never sinned. “


Right obviously Noah was a sinner …..how could I have missed it

“These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And of course job was just born wicked and had no choice

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and of course cain was just born already enslaved to sin without a choice and he wasn’t a perfect example of man now having the knowledge of both good and evil and needing to choose the good …

“Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?

But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:6-7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

But of course he had already been born a condemned sinner without any hope of being accepted …… he didint exhibit now having a conflicted nature between good and evil and wasn’t offered the choice .

Naw everyone was just rejected by god sinners since Adam and no one was perfect no one was righteous …..

Some of you should start in genesis and just follow what it says happened. You’ll find adams sin caused this

“And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭NIV‬‬

and so man then was put in this position

“If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?

But if you do not do what is right,

sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you,


but you must rule over it.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

About 700 bc god decrees this

“The Lord looked down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God.

All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭


Noah , job ect all lives way before this occured . Man isn’t born wrong we become wrong because we choose the evil and not the good Adam unleashed on us . Mankind was not always like that enoch never even died because he pleased god with his life the bible tells us this it shouldn’t be an issue when there are several examples

“By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Enoch pleased god in his lifetime and god translated him so that he never died but was just translated and lost to the earth it’s because he lived an upright life and communed with god he rejected evil and walked with the lord by faith

“Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭NIV‬‬

This is what ruins us not being born but this

“but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

were meant to stand against temptation to overcome the evil inclinations and do what’s right . This is what makes a person a “ sinner “ and ruins us same choice cain had between good and evil

“If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭

It’s personal not hereditary based on our actions not our birth it comes from the corrupted knowledge of good and evil man then had a conflict between good and evil within them and we’re out in a fallen position of having to choose the good in order to inherit thier god given inheritence that Adam fouled up

“Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient servants, you are servants of the one you obey—

whether you are servants to sin, which leads to death,

or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16‬ ‭

like job who was one of the final men spoken about this way in the ot before god saw there was no one left and all mankind had become corrupted by sin .

“In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭NIV‬‬
 
HealthAndHappiness said:
I agree she has gone through a lot. That's probably why we don't see many other interviews from those in this region in Western media.


As to my Catholic comment,
here's a chart taught by a Southern Baptist historian and preacher who wrote a famous book on church history. I find the lineage and history interesting.
If you want a free electronic copy of the accompanying book, just let me know. It is unique in being an easy quick read and it covers ancient history of the dark ages prior to the Reformation.

View attachment 278617
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If that chart were more honest it would show Protestantism branching off from western Catholicism because 1) that's what happened and 2) Calvin and Luther developed their theologies from the writings of the Catholic Augustine, and not the writings of the early church fathers.
 
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HeIsHere said:
I have seen nothing to disprove what she stated, in fact most of what she stated has already been known and verifiable.
As well siblings is not proof of anything.
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There have been US missionaries to Israel for many decades that are not allowed to evangelize and start churches. Evangelicals are still looking for open doors to all the middle eastern countries. Other than Christian tourists, I don't see open doors of acceptance from the state religions of Jewish or Muslim countries.

8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

They are going to be tormented by their rejection of the powerful gospel preaching.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
If that chart were more honest it would show Protestantism branching off from western Catholicism because 1) that's what happened and 2) Calvin and Luther developed their theologies from the writings of the Catholic Augustine, and not the writings of the early church fathers.
Click to expand...


There's only so much detail anyone can express on a timeline chart. The book is yours for the asking too if you want to read it.
The author details the history you mentioned and you will probably agree, judging from what you said.
 
Pilgrimshope said:
“These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:5‬ ‭KJV‬
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Do you believe these verses teach these people never sinned? The Bible teaches all have sinned, including Noah. Remember Noah got drunk after the flood and bad things happened. That is only the stuff we are told
 
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HealthAndHappiness said:
There have been US missionaries to Israel for many decades that are not allowed to evangelize and start churches. Evangelicals are still looking for open doors to all the middle eastern countries. Other than Christian tourists, I don't see open doors of acceptance from the state religions of Jewish or Muslim countries.

8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

They are going to be tormented by their rejection of the powerful gospel preaching.
Click to expand...

Since I am not a futurist all see this as already fulfilled, however, certainly the middle east could blow up soon, especially since Iran is next on the hit list, but more importantly the USA is no longer a sovereign state so her future is in peril as well.
 
HealthAndHappiness said:
There's only so much detail anyone can express on a timeline chart. The book is yours for the asking too if you want to read it.
The author details the history you mentioned and you will probably agree, judging from what you said.
Click to expand...

I was thinking it could be broken apart into segments and Scofield and Darby should definitively have an entire big segment!!
:D;)
 
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Slimsumo said:
Hahaha. I had a feeling you would say that. If you truly believe Zechariah 14 already happened language has lost all meaning and you are dead in the water.
Click to expand...

Keep waiting it is your life, but God likes it when people take a stand where He takes His stand and the words of Christ Jesus are clear enough even for a child to see.
 
PennEd said:
Are you claiming Noah and Job were sinless?
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I’m quoting what the Bible says about Noah and job

“These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and others also but Noah and job yeah I quoted from the bible where it says they were perfect and upright and righteous

hundreds of years later this happened

“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: ( they weren’t always like that they became that way god is observing them ) There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬

He says that but my point is sinple he also said this beforehand about job and Noah ect

it seems to me like someone who wanted to refute this point should probably come up with the scriptures saying they were sinners because I have shared the ones supporting my position that they were righteous and walked with god and we’re never noted to be sinners like some of you seem to be stuck on

i think some have read psalm 14 occurring about 700 bc and applied it to the time before that when god was still actively dealing with righteous men upon earth like Noah or job or Daniel even whos own righteousness could deliver thier own souls just not another persons soul

“though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.( I’m just quoting what he said )

though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭14:14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So yeah that’s what I had quoted where is the biblical argument against that biblical argument ?
 
Slimsumo said:
Do you believe these verses teach these people never sinned? The Bible teaches all have sinned, including Noah. Remember Noah got drunk after the flood and bad things happened. That is only the stuff we are told
Click to expand...
I believe the Bible says that of them yeah and I also believe the Bible never argues against it and calls Noah and job sinners .

you guys find those verses that change what it says and then I’ll know about those verses too but how do you explain what it says ?

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you take er from there but please use scripture and don’t just tell
Me how wrong I am
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
In the end I will be the one laughing. I gave you the evidence; now you are responsible for it.
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I read the chapter in the Septuagiant and it also has Jesus returning to the mount of olives? Doesn't change the fact at all. People will still be coming to keep the feast of tabernacles in Jerusalem.

Why wont you believe what the Bible says?

You say it already happened @HeIsHere but won't tell me WHEN was Zechariah 14 fulfilled. Only a theologian can be like this. Who poisoned the well? When did the nations go and celebrate the feast of tabernacles. I won't hold my breath. I can only guess its something about 70AD or symbolic about people becoming Christians. Making it up as you go along.


Brock is a former preterist
 
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