Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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He foreknew there would be believers - more specifically "those (plural - the men) who love Him" Rom8:28 - these (plural) are the whom as I identified.

Specific individuals is another discussion.
Right it doesn’t say god loved them so they are chosen “ it says they loved him and that he foreknew those who would. Not that he chose them and not others but that he had foreknowledge that a group of many would believe and be saved but they loved him is the difference in the world he loved the world and gave his life to save it but only some return the love

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Jesus Christ is God in flesh so I will take His direct words and compare them to your flake excuse of a doctrine all day long just to keep seeing you whine like this post I have quoted.

Btw, want some cheese with that whine?
😄 😄

And the rest of scripture that is NOT Jesus' "direct words" is what: the fallible, man-inspired word? How long will you simple-minded love your simple ways?
 
Now now, He knew THOSE men just not which ones specifically. :rolleyes:

Obviously God is not omniscient in studier's view. Another open theist?

I would not be surprised.

Of course! Studier has made his god in his own image. And I bet ya, he's as proud as a strutting peacock over the idol he has erected in his own heart. His god must acquire knowledge like we mere mortals do.
 
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Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge.
 
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Right it doesn’t say god loved them so they are chosen “ it says they loved him and that he foreknew those who would. Not that he chose them and not others but that he had foreknowledge that a group of many would believe and be saved but they loved him is the difference in the world he loved the world and gave his life to save it but only some return the love

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-3‬ ‭KJV ‬‬

And of course, you have chapter and verse to support your drivel, right? I dearly would love to learn where it says sinners loved him first and then he rewarded them with salvation. :rolleyes:
 
You got the cart before the horse buddy!

God DOES save the elect.
If God elects the saved, then the elect are ELECTING THEMSELVES and God is merely reacting to what they do.

God is the first cause, the first mover. He has the freedom. NOT YOU!

Conflation the gift (God first cause) with the ability of the person to receive the gift.
Another puleese ..... stop the conflating.
 
Yeah...He [fore]knew all his elect by name in eternity and predestined them to be saved. Everyone He predetermined to give to Jesus is destined to come to Jesus in space and time.

So God yanked your head back.
Put a golden funnel in your mouth...
And, poured salvation into you!

Then He slapped you on your behind.
Made you born again.
And, then, sent you on your way?

God predetermined when you should be born and living on earth.
Because, if He predetermined that you were to be born during the Church age?
It would mean, He chose you in Him before the foundations of the earth to become the Bride of Christ!

That is what we have been chosen for!
Not chosen to believe.
But, chosen for what our salvation would entail,
because He knew (that with the help of his grace) we would want to believe.

Without grace, none of us could believe.
Grace divides and separates our souls from our depravity.
And, while under GRACE... He will have our soul made able to freely choose!

That is why it says...

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9​
If we could do works to gain salvation?
Then salvation would have been of ourselves!

We are not saved by doing works!
(Works is in the plural!)

Meaning, "works" were divised systems of telling people the things that they must do to inherit eternal life.
Hence... "religion."

But, there is only one sole work alone that saves and God honors.
Not works!
But, one work.

And, this is that one work!

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” (John 6:28-29)



Really. That is all it is folks!

One work (faith). Not works! "Believing."
Not, performing deeds assigned by men to gain the approval of God.


Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”



Just one work!
Believe!
Saved!



.
 
Conflation the gift (God first cause) with the ability of the person to receive the gift.
Another puleese ..... stop the conflating.
You conflate being given the gift of faith with being forced to believe.

But I suppose it makes sense to you since in your theology God is unfair.

And you applaud the idea of Him being an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their will if He acts unilaterally.

Where, when, or how you developed a taste for such detestable blasphemies against God I do not know.

Are you going to tell us your previous user names?
 
You TULIP Guys are stuck in one point of doctrine.
Why?
It is your attention getter.

When you go before the Lord, he will be looking if you have several thousand doctrines living through you.

No Lord! Just that One! The One that you did all my thinking for me!
I could not decide anything freely for myself!

Do you know how stupid that sounds?
Again your discernment is poor. I partake of a fair number of threads. And I'm hardly seeking attention.
Perhaps you should examine your motives.
I agree it sounds stupid. But then again, you wrote it.
 
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Jesus' words in Matthew 17 v 20-21
Faith the size of a mustard seed moved the mountain of my unbelief.

Do It Again | Live | Elevation Worship
:)
 
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As do you

At least I know there are several meanings to the term "world", which is far more than you know. But lovers of Darkness are quite at home with their self-induced ignorance, aren't you? You just cannot embrace the Light, can you?

Here's something else you don't know, O Lover of Ignorance: The bible teaches that Israel never considered herself to be part of the world, i.e. as just another one of many nations in the world.
 
Does anyone see the irony here?
I think you misunderstood. Rufus is affirming that those walking in darkness cannot.

I know that because that is what Scripture teaches.

And it is not what free willing folks teach.
 
And of course, you have chapter and verse to support your drivel, right? I dearly would love to learn where it says sinners loved him first and then he rewarded them with salvation. :rolleyes:

First I didint say they loved him “first “ you added tbat n order to argue what I said was God loved the whole world and gave his son that they could be saved ….and the ones who love him in return will be saved

abut yeah the verse I was talking about is here

“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Again to be clear God lived the whole world that he created and so when all was lost he sent his only begotten son in order that whosoever out of that lost world wouod repent and believe the gospel they would become his chosen people only because they are in his chosen one

he’s talking about believers of the gospel tbey have always been ordained to be saved . All the prophets foretold it whoever would believe the gospel eouod be the chosen children of God receiv Ng remission of sins


“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some of you think you are individually chosen lol your wayyyyyy off you guys are all in this same group you have to like anyone be in Christ to be acceptable and “ elect “ because he’s the only one worthy
 
Do a little research, and try not to get so jaded.
A little research?

1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Cor 5:19
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Show these 2 verses to your kids and try to convince them that the "world" doesn't mean ALL.

John 3:16
Acts 16:31

The calvies are on the wrong side of HIStory. And Frankly, a steady and long destructive path of His Grace.
 
Does anyone see the irony here?

“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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A little research?

1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Cor 5:19
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Show these 2 verses to your kids and try to convince them that the "world" doesn't mean ALL.

John 3:16
Acts 16:31

The calvies are on the wrong side of HIStory. And Frankly, a steady and long destructive path of His Grace.
You still haven't come to a correct understanding of world. It doesn't mean every single individual.