The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

[GWH]

I appreciate the work you did to make that chronology. I will see how well I can reply using my phone.
Re Galatians you will notice that Paul does not say which type of baptism he has in mind but given that Romans is the main context we can bet that it is NOT the work of WB.
Re 1Thessalonians: Ditto
Re 2Thessalonians: We can infer that WB is approved as the apt way of professing Christ outwardly.
More later.

Re 53 AD: No, the word of truth referenced in Ephesians 1:13 is the Gospel of salvation also referenced in Ephesians 2:8-10,
which does NOT say we are saved via laying on hands and speaking in tongues.

Re 55 AD: We note that Paul was involved in WB, although the essential mission was to preach the Gospel of salvation in Christ
as noted in Ephesians 2: 8-10 and Romans 1-5.

Re 57 AD: As just noted, Paul wrote Romans which explains that sinners are saved via faith in Christ, which was professed via WB per Romans 6:3-4, as was done also per Acts 2:38-41.

Re 58-60 AD: Paul wrote Ephesians, which in 2:8-10 briefly describes how salvation occurs and parallels Acts 19:4 ("John told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus", who would baptize believers with the HS per Matt 3:11) as well as Acts 2:36 ("God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ"), the first message presented at Pentecost.

Re 61 AD: Paul wrote Philippians, where Lydia heard him preach the Gospel, believed his message per Acts 16:14 and was WB. Also, Paul's jailer asked him how to be saved, and Paul told him, "Believe in the Lord Jesus" (Acts 16:30-31).

Re 62 AD: Paul wrote Colossians, wherein he says that believers will be saved IF they continue having faith in the Gospel (Col. 1:22-23).
Paul explains that in Christ they were circumcised and baptized--not with a baptism done by the hands of men but with the baptism done by Christ's HS--which was portrayed via WB (Col. 2:11-12).

Over...

 

[Ouch]

I have shared GRFS simply and elaborately as follows (Lesson 2 on <truthseekersfellowship.com>):

A crisis that threatened a Philippian jailer with death prompted him to ask Paul and Silas the most important question in life: “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30) This question regarding GRFS is most important, because—as sinful and mortal souls—we need saving from corruption, both moral and physical. We need saving from physical death if we value or enjoy life, and we need saving from immorality or evil-doing if it results in unhappy existence, especially after this lifetime.

The reply of Paul and Silas was this: “Believe in the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 16:31) This is GRFS simply. Jesus Himself expressed GRFS even more simply using three, four and five letter words: “Ask… seek… knock…” (Matt. 7:7).

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept/love Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

When Jesus said "You must be born again" he referred to being "born of the Spirit" (John 3:7-8) = SB.

When JESUS said you must be born again he MENT Water and Spirit. How do I know because that is what HE SAID. Water is not natural birth because you have to be born naturally to be able to be REBORN.

 

[Ouch]

It describes the traits of those indwelt by the Holy Spirit and the gifts given them - traits that I believe I also have been given and possess. Did you actually read it?



Wrong, it is you who doesn't understand.
Speaking with "new tongues" is not the same biblically as speaking "in tongues" or "with tongues" - you have them confused. New tongues is in the speaking/teaching of the of the New Covenant- the gospel - a covenant of salvation exclusively by God's mercy and grace through Jesus Christ the Savior - only those saved - those with the Holy Spirit - they follow Christ and were given true knowledge and belief in that New Covenant. They alone speak with new tongues - the unsaved cannot do so because they do not/cannot truly know it- it comes only with/from salvation. That speaking of the New Covenant is the new tongue. Speaking with the tongue of the Old Covenant - a covenant of works - speaks of a covenant which does not/cannot bring salvation and thereby is ready to vanish away.
Speaking in tongues was one of the manifestations of being filled temporarily (after being indwelt permanently) with the Holy Spirit. Speaking with new tongues is permanent because salvation is permanent.

So, do you believe that Jesus Christ alone is the Savior, or not?

 

[Ouch]

It describes the traits of those indwelt by the Holy Spirit and the gifts given them - traits that I believe I also have been given and possess. Did you actually read it?



Wrong, it is you who doesn't understand.
Speaking with "new tongues" is not the same biblically as speaking "in tongues" or "with tongues" - you have them confused. New tongues is in the speaking/teaching of the of the New Covenant- the gospel - a covenant of salvation exclusively by God's mercy and grace through Jesus Christ the Savior - only those saved - those with the Holy Spirit - they follow Christ and were given true knowledge and belief in that New Covenant. They alone speak with new tongues - the unsaved cannot do so because they do not/cannot truly know it- it comes only with/from salvation. That speaking of the New Covenant is the new tongue. Speaking with the tongue of the Old Covenant - a covenant of works - speaks of a covenant which does not/cannot bring salvation and thereby is ready to vanish away.
Speaking in tongues was one of the manifestations of being filled temporarily (after being indwelt permanently) with the Holy Spirit. Speaking with new tongues is permanent because salvation is permanent.

So, do you believe that Jesus Christ alone is the Savior, or not?

Yea it does talk about AFTER you get it, THAT WAS NOT THE QUESTION.

Why no just say NO you haven't????

You sure do talk a lot and I guess you believe what you say?

Why don't you back up YOUR opinion with HIS WORD???

If you can't you know it's a lie right???

 

[GWH]

When JESUS said you must be born again he MENT Water and Spirit. How do I know because that is what HE SAID. Water is not natural birth because you have to be born naturally to be able to be REBORN.

Perhaps it would help to quote the whole passage: "Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Flesh [sex] gives birth to flesh [babies, when the woman's water breaks out of the womb]. but the Spirit [HS] gives birth to spirit [believers when they are reborn via faith breaking out in their hearts]. [Ergo] You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again." (John 3:5-7)

Then Jesus referred to how [physical] wind blows, possibly intending that to be parallel with "flesh"
and contrasted with how the Spirit operates.

 

[Ouch]

Perhaps it would help to quote the whole passage: "Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Flesh [sex] gives birth to flesh [babies, when the woman's water breaks out of the womb]. but the Spirit [HS] gives birth to spirit [believers when they are reborn via faith breaking out in their hearts]. [Ergo] You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again." (John 3:5-7)

Then Jesus referred to how [physical] wind blows, possibly intending that to be parallel with "flesh"
and contrasted with how the Spirit operates.

You can tell your story anywhy you wish it doens't make it true, HIS WORD IS HIS WORD which is TRUE.

You know how I KNOW your wrong, because what you say does not line up with what HE SAYS.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

I guess you don't know, when we are born naturally that is when we get our sins.

When we get baptized in JESUS name that is when we get rid of them.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

CAN'T ENTER with out being REBORN, meaning a second time.

 

[GWH]

You can tell your story anywhy you wish it doens't make it true, HIS WORD IS HIS WORD which is TRUE.

You know how I KNOW your wrong, because what you say does not line up with what HE SAYS.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

I guess you don't know, when we are born naturally that is when we get our sins.

When we get baptized in JESUS name that is when we get rid of them.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

CAN'T ENTER with out being REBORN, meaning a second time.

Yes, but of the Spirit, not water.

 

[Ouch]

Yes, but of the Spirit, not water.

Satans plan keep them OUT of the water!

If they get in the water keep JESUS name out of it!!

As we can see being baptized in JESUS name for remission of sins is the most controversial topic.

Second it being filled with HIS spirit.

How do you know you have HIS spirit?

Peter says, you will see and hear when someone in filled.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

[GWH]

Satans plan keep them OUT of the water!

If they get in the water keep JESUS name out of it!!

As we can see being baptized in JESUS name for remission of sins is the most controversial topic.

Second it being filled with HIS spirit.

How do you know you have HIS spirit?

Peter says, you will see and hear when someone in filled.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

The basis for believing we are filled with the HS is reflecting the love of God for everyone.
(Matt 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.)

 

[Wansvic]

Re "allude" vs. "lists": Why do you want to quibble?

Re Acts as the "foundation": I already shared that "Acts records the early days of the church era,
but it does NOT teach the foundational doctrines of salvation as explicitly as the didactic parts of the gospels and epistles",
so let us let move the discussion forward rather than go in circles.

Re foundation in Matt. 7:21-27 & Luke 6:46-49: That refers to Christ, as in Matt. 16:16-18.

Rain is good; floods are bad.

The foundation is laid on the rock.

"...he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock." Luke 6:46-49

 

[GWH]

The foundation is laid on the rock.

"...he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock." Luke 6:46-49

Yes, Christ is the rock/foundation referred to in 1Cor. 3:11.

 

[Wansvic]

So, you didn't answer my question. Is that because you aren't a Christian and do not believe Christ is the Savior?
It's actually difficult for me to believe that is really what you're asking, but for the time being, I'll proceed on the assumption that you don't believe He is. Here are the verses from scripture you asked for that demonstrate otherwise.
What is your understanding of Christ's role if not as the Savior?

[Phl 3:20 KJV] 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
[2Ti 1:10 KJV] 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
[Tit 2:13 KJV] 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
[Tit 3:6 KJV] 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
[2Pe 1:1, 11 KJV] 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: ...
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
[2Pe 2:20 KJV] 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[2Pe 3:18 KJV] 18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.
[1Jo 4:14 KJV] 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.

Of course Jesus is the Savior, He paid the penalty for mankind's sin. Without Jesus' sacrifice no one would be saved. However, where we differ is I believe and obey what scripture says everyone must do in order to take hold of what Jesus died to provide. Scripture reveals we are saved through faith. Faith without works/obedience is dead. (James 2, Hebrews 11)

As noted in my previous post the scriptures below reveal obedience is the key that opens the door to salvation. And, according to Jesus it is not opinions but the word that will judge everyone.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb. 5:9

Jude explains there is a common salvation and it can be found in what was first preached by the saints/apostles. (Jude 3)

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." (Acts 2:36-42)


Jesus said: (* things added that were not in previous post)

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15-16

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: *Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:... " Matt. 28:19

*Aligns with instructions in Acts 2, I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke 13:5

* If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
(Believers who willingly repent and are water baptized in Jesus' name shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38. However, Jesus' statement reveals there are times when receiving the Holy Ghost does not automatically occur when a believer has obeyed the commands. In such cases the person must petition God directly in order to receive the Holy Spirit.)

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" John 8:31



"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Matt. 7:21-27

 

[tablet123]

What is God's requirement for salvation (GRFS)?

God's requirement for salvation.

Believe in a God which creation testifies there is a God.

Confess Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Identify with the man Christ Jesus by repenting, dying out to sin, turning away from sin, being water baptized in the name of Jesus which Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans, were baptized in Jesus' name and everything we do in word and deed is to be done in Jesus' name.

Which the Bible says we are baptized in to His death.

Jesus said I am come in my Father's name.

The Son inherited the name.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not names but titles and the name is singular which is Jesus.

Allowing the Spirit to lead you being Christlike.

Jesus said we must be born of water and the Spirit.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

These people did not allow the Spirit to lead them loving pleasures believing they were in position for salvation never coming to the truth.

Any person who says we cannot abstain from sin, and sin does not affect our relationship with Christ we are to turn away from them because they do not have Christlike behavior.

1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

They have a form of godliness but are not perfect in being Christlike which a little leaven leavens the whole lump .

By the Spirit we can abstain from sin.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

They say faith alone but charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

No love, then faith is void.

1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Charity does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth to hate sin and the fear of the LORD is to hate evil.

But they enjoy sin never coming to the truth.

1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

These people will enjoy their wants loving money believing the prosperity Gospel which we are to withdraw from them.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

We must allow the Spirit to lead us to be Christlike but many do not.

Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Those saved can fall away if they go back to sinning and hold on to sin.

If a person holds on to sin the blood of Christ cannot wash it away.

There would not be a warning if a person cannot fall away.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If a person stops believing the truth for an alternate reality by becoming atheist, stop believing Jesus is the Savior, or believe in a different religion there is no repentance to be saved again.

 

[studier]

Of course Jesus is the Savior, He paid the penalty for mankind's sin. Without Jesus' sacrifice no one would be saved. However, where we differ is I believe and obey what scripture says everyone must do in order to take hold of what Jesus died to provide. Scripture reveals we are saved through faith. Faith without works/obedience is dead. (James 2, Hebrews 11)

Good statement!

One comment: In Heb3 and Rom10 (and others) Faith and Obedience are used interchangeably. I view this and other Scriptures telling us there is no Faith in God apart from Obedience to God.

So, I'd change your wording just a bit from works/obedience to faith/obedience and in this I think we can see why faith w/o works is dead. It has to be faith/obedience/works or what is faith/obedience that does nothing?

With that said, there is a sense in which faith/obedience is complete w/o works. We're commanded by God to believe in the name of Jesus Christ (1John3:23 and others), so when we believe we are also obeying God's command to believe., so faith/obedience.

So, we begin in faith/obedience (and faith is not works, so neither is obedience works) - then we add good works God has designed for us - thus faith/obedience becomes faith/obedience/works.

Obedience is key to everything. Without it there is no Faith in God. Without it there is no Love for God and one another.

 

[GWH]

You can tell your story anywhy you wish it doens't make it true, HIS WORD IS HIS WORD which is TRUE.

You know how I KNOW your wrong, because what you say does not line up with what HE SAYS.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

I guess you don't know, when we are born naturally that is when we get our sins.

When we get baptized in JESUS name that is when we get rid of them.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

CAN'T ENTER with out being REBORN, meaning a second time.

Nope, that didn’t help.

 

[GWH]

God's requirement for salvation.

Believe in a God which creation testifies there is a God.

Confess Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Identify with the man Christ Jesus by repenting, dying out to sin, turning away from sin, being water baptized in the name of Jesus which Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans, were baptized in Jesus' name and everything we do in word and deed is to be done in Jesus' name.

Which the Bible says we are baptized in to His death.

Jesus said I am come in my Father's name.

The Son inherited the name.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not names but titles and the name is singular which is Jesus.

Allowing the Spirit to lead you being Christlike.

Jesus said we must be born of water and the Spirit.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

These people did not allow the Spirit to lead them loving pleasures believing they were in position for salvation never coming to the truth.

Any person who says we cannot abstain from sin, and sin does not affect our relationship with Christ we are to turn away from them because they do not have Christlike behavior.

1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

They have a form of godliness but are not perfect in being Christlike which a little leaven leavens the whole lump .

By the Spirit we can abstain from sin.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

They say faith alone but charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

No love, then faith is void.

1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Charity does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth to hate sin and the fear of the LORD is to hate evil.

But they enjoy sin never coming to the truth.

1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

These people will enjoy their wants loving money believing the prosperity Gospel which we are to withdraw from them.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

We must allow the Spirit to lead us to be Christlike but many do not.

Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Those saved can fall away if they go back to sinning and hold on to sin.

If a person holds on to sin the blood of Christ cannot wash it away.

There would not be a warning if a person cannot fall away.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If a person stops believing the truth for an alternate reality by becoming atheist, stop believing Jesus is the Savior, or believe in a different religion there is no repentance to be saved again.

Good post and I agree except that WB by the end of Paul’s epistles came to be understood as good but not essential, just like physical circumcision.

 

[Wansvic]

I appreciate the work you did to make that chronology. I will see how well I can reply using my phone.
Re Galatians you will notice that Paul does not say which type of baptism he has in mind but given that Romans is the main context we can bet that it is NOT the work of WB.
Re 1Thessalonians: Ditto
Re 2Thessalonians: We can infer that WB is approved as the apt way of professing Christ outwardly.
More later.

Paul states not all have obeyed the gospel, this places the onus on man. A believers trust in Jesus prompts obedience to the gospel that results in God bringing about the spiritual reality He promises.

Death occurs upon repentance, and being placed under the water in baptism is when burial with Jesus takes place and personal sin is remitted/washed away. Acts 22:16, 2:38, etc. (One can easily see this as the initial contact with the blood of Jesus) Rising up out of the water is resurrection into new life. God's creation pictures many spiritual realities. Consider the parallel of breaking forth from the womb in the natural birth and the NT rebirth command of water baptism. Coincidence? Not a chance.

God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to NT believers willing to act in obedience to His commands. This was revealed on the day people were first birthed into the church. (Acts 2) And confirmed elsewhere in scripture, indicating the same applies to everyone regardless of ethnicity. (Acts 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

 

[studier]

Paul states not all have obeyed the gospel, this places the onus on man.

Peter also says this.

I agree with you re: the onus being on man.

Good statements!

A believers trust in Jesus prompts obedience to the gospel that results in God bringing about the spiritual reality He promises

Questions: why do you seemingly break this up into two: trust > obedience and do you see trust and belief or faith being different than one another?

God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to NT believers willing to act in obedience to His commands.

Question: Ultimately, is there any other kind of [true] believer?

 

[GWH]

Paul states not all have obeyed the gospel, this places the onus on man. A believers trust in Jesus prompts obedience to the gospel that results in God bringing about the spiritual reality He promises.

Death occurs upon repentance, and being placed under the water in baptism is when burial with Jesus takes place and personal sin is remitted/washed away. Acts 22:16, 2:38, etc. (One can easily see this as the initial contact with the blood of Jesus) Rising up out of the water is resurrection into new life. God's creation pictures many spiritual realities. Consider the parallel of breaking forth from the womb in the natural birth and the NT rebirth command of water baptism. Coincidence? Not a chance.

God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to NT believers willing to act in obedience to His commands. This was revealed on the day people were first birthed into the church. (Acts 2) And confirmed elsewhere in scripture, indicating the same applies to everyone regardless of ethnicity. (Acts 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

I agree that MFW puts the onus on the sinner, but re WB please see what I just said to tablet.

 

[rogerg]

Of course Jesus is the Savior, He paid the penalty for mankind's sin. Without Jesus' sacrifice no one would be saved. However, where we differ is I believe and obey what scripture says everyone must do in order to take hold of what Jesus died to provide. Scripture reveals we are saved through faith. Faith without works/obedience is dead. (James 2, Hebrews 11)

As noted in my previous post the scriptures below reveal obedience is the key that opens the door to salvation. And, according to Jesus it is not opinions but the word that will judge everyone.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb. 5:9

Jude explains there is a common salvation and it can be found in what was first preached by the saints/apostles. (Jude 3)

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." (Acts 2:36-42)


Jesus said: (* things added that were not in previous post)

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15-16

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: *Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:... " Matt. 28:19

*Aligns with instructions in Acts 2, I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke 13:5

* If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
(Believers who willingly repent and are water baptized in Jesus' name shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38. However, Jesus' statement reveals there are times when receiving the Holy Ghost does not automatically occur when a believer has obeyed the commands. In such cases the person must petition God directly in order to receive the Holy Spirit.)

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" John 8:31



"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Matt. 7:21-27

But that would make of us our own savior and Christ not the Savior, because should anyone achieve those things, they, in effect, would obtain salvation by their efforts; and should they not do them, then they would not obtain salvation, thus making Christ into a fait accompli of sorts only carrying out the results of their actions, but Christ alone is THE Savior. To actually be the Savior, He alone must do the saving - every bit of it with nothing remaining outside of it yet to be satisfied by anyone. By that, we know that the only faith that saves was Christ's faith, not ours; the only works that saves were Christ's works, not ours; the only obedience that saves was Christ's obedience, not ours; the only righteousness that saves, was Christ righteousness, not ours.
So, regarding the verses you quoted, while I do not intend to go through each one to give you my perception of their intent or of what they actually represent, I will try to approach it from a higher perspective - with the questions then being: who satisfies them, why do they satisfy them, and how do they satisfy them? I think the verses below provide answers to that. Notice in the New Covenant, that for those He places under it, that God alone assumes full responsibility for completion - and along with/by that, He also gives full forgiveness of sin - with nothing yet remaining to be satisfied - with the New Covenant then being the salvation process itself.
So, while God demands conformance to His spiritual requirements, He had also satisfied those requirements, and by that, instills within us the desire to conform to them, but that from salvation, not prerequisites to salvation. Were it otherwise, it would mean the replacing of the requirements/works of the Old Covenant with different requirements/works of the New Covenant - works which would still have to be satisfied by us but which would be beyond our abilities to do so, and salvation would not be by grace as we are told it is, but instead by works.

[Heb 1:3 KJV]
3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

[Heb 8:10-13 KJV]
10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

[Heb 10:12, 14, 16-18 KJV]
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; ...
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. ...
16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.