Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

He tried freewill. It didn't work, so He flooded the place and started over with somebody who made better decisions. Well, till he got drunk. The whole family's guilty now. Thank God for Jesus. He did it right this time and ended all the unecessary questions.

Well, Adam was of the natural world as was Eve of course, being made from Adam.

Their worldly desires opposed the spiritual things of God.

Some say man's nature did not change when he sinned, but we, being born after Adam, are
children of wrath by nature, and none are good. This did not apply to Adam when he was created.

 

[Magenta]

You're picking up more and more bad habits around here as you turn from goofy cartoon character to warrior cartoon character, e.g. "Try reading his word".

once your mocking begins it seems to continue.

You started your mocking of BillyBob quite some time ago... and it continues.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

It seems to me there is confusion on many fronts starting with the term free will itself which is not in the Bible. So they throw this term around and people believe that because they can choose what color socks to wear it somehow has some bearing on the eternal fate of their soul, which completely misses the mark. Another piece of the puzzle is the fact that those who profess free will have a derangement syndrome known as CDS but they largely refuse to acknowledge that man's inability is not exclusive to calvinism. They don't like the term depravity either but it is not exclusive to calvinism either. On the other hand the Bible does teach that God moves first and that nobody is seeking for God ... that they only come because He draws them with loving kindness to engender repentance.

I consider free will just as the Trinity to be defined from the evidence within the scriptures while I agree neither word is found in scripture.

I'd suppose if we had to define free will it would be we are free in the sense on how we respond to God.

How do we respond to the moral law written our hearts? How do we respond to the gospel?

Of course, we are free to act within our nature of sin as God is not the sovereign author of evil. Also free to choose what color socks to wear.

But this also doesn't negate when God decides to move against our will just as He did with Paul or Pharoah.

Ultimately, this debate is pointless if we just go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything He commanded us. And to remind them that He is always with them, to the very end of the age.”

On the other hand the Bible does teach that God moves first and that nobody is seeking for God ... that they only come because He draws them with loving kindness to engender repentance

I agree. God moved first and now as we preach, we preach for all to come and know Him who shook the Earth, tore the veil, defeated sin and death, and gave us all the free gift of grace, redemption, and justification.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I consider free will just as the Trinity to be defined from the evidence within the scriptures while I agree neither word is found in scripture.

I'd suppose if we had to define free will it would be we are free in the sense on how we respond to God.

How do we respond to the moral law written our hearts? How do we respond to the gospel?

Of course, we are free to act within our nature of sin as God is not the sovereign author of evil. Also free to choose what color socks to wear.

But this also doesn't negate when God decides to move against our will just as He did with Paul or Pharoah.

Ultimately, this debate is pointless if we just go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything He commanded us. And to remind them that He is always with them, to the very end of the age.”



I agree. God moved first and now as we preach, we preach for all to come and know Him who shook the Earth, tore the veil, defeated sin and death, and gave us all the free gift of grace, redemption, and justification.

“I agree. God moved first”

“Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the world.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭

“and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭11:26‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[Magenta]

I consider free will just as the Trinity to be defined from the evidence within the scriptures while I agree neither word is found in scripture.

I'd suppose if we had to define free will it would be we are free in the sense on how we respond to God.

How do we respond to the moral law written our hearts? How do we respond to the gospel?

Of course, we are free to act within our nature of sin as God is not the sovereign author of evil. Also free to choose what color socks to wear.

But this also doesn't negate when God decides to move against our will just as He did with Paul or Pharoah.

Ultimately, this debate is pointless if we just go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything He commanded us. And to remind them that He is always with them, to the very end of the age.”



I agree. God moved first and now as we preach, we preach for all to come and know Him who shook the Earth, tore the veil, defeated sin and death, and gave us all the free gift of grace, redemption, and justification.

Regarding your previous statement about legalism, man's will is bent away from God, being inherently hostile in his mind toward Him, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness as a lover of darkness and a slave to sin refusing to come into the light. That is what the Bible teaches and further articulates that man is unable to submit or obey, and that includes to the commands to repent and believe. Those who are able to respond in the positive to God's call do so because they have been set free from being under the power and influence of the devil. With the heart one believes. Man's heart is incurably wicked (he cannot change himself any more than a leopard can change his spots or an Ethiopian the color of his skin) and not good ground for producing good fruit, but the free will crowd rejects what Jesus said in that regard also. They claim man needs nothing and is born able to submit despite all the verses opposed to such declarations.

from Revelation 3 verse 17-18 ~ You say, ‘I need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

 

[studier]

I'm self-taught but feel it to be Holy Spirit-led. So I don't hold to any tradition except those that complement how the Bible reads. I came to the Bible before being heavily exposed to past doctrines.

Thanks. I studied myself in Spirit, then asked for and received teaching, then went back to self-study after seminary.

What tradition, if any, seems to you to best complement how the Bible reads?

1. Regardless of what the gift is, the meaning of the word speaks of pistis as something given of supernatural persuasion. Which gives me the belief that pistis is part of the gift or else no one would respond to God due to sin.

You'd have to elaborate here for me to better understand you. When you say "the meaning of the word" do you mean the definition of pistis itself or the meaning you think Scripture gives it? Either way, would you provide some reference link or Scripture(s) to show this?

Every testimony including mine has a point once we are persuaded that Jesus is Lord and then we accept Him as Lord and Savior.

To believe is to accept Jesus's finished work on the cross.

Where people get confused is thinking that belief is legalistic.

But there are plenty of scriptures that call on the unbelievers to believe which would be a lie if they could not.

I too see the persuasion language and concept in Scripture and in the root of pistis and pisteuo as I understand you suggesting (and please do correct me if I've misunderstood you somewhere) persuasion.

I understand your statement about Jesus and the cross. I see belief in Jesus according to Paul (and others) foundationally as believing and submitting to and understanding the reality that Jesus is YHWH's Anointed/Messiah/Christ.

I in part agree with your comment about legalistic (I'd also add or clarify by saying "works").

I agree with your last sentence.

 

[fredoheaven]

Ninevah did hear the word of God. So obviously not talking about them. And I don't believe fairness is an attribute of God. He is said to be righteous. And it is certain that large swaths of humanity never heard the gospel. There are still those today who have not heard the gospel. What of these?

Perhaps God will send you or others to reach them with the gospel. God bless

 

[Rufus]

That is very true! And His justice for His chosen people was satisfied in Christ's death and resurrection.

Exactly right, brother! The chosen people of God receive exactly what they deserve based solely on the merits of their Federal Head, i.e. the Last Adam! And the non-elect receive what they fully deserve -- eternal punishment for Adam's sin and their own personal sins.

 

[Magenta]

@Roughsoul1991
Free willers essentially claim the flesh can bring forth the good fruit of faith.... they have the man of the flesh, who opposes the
things of the Spirit, who can neither receive nor understand them, choosing to believe the foolishness they represent to him.

Flesh serves the law of sin. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. Nothing good lives in my flesh. Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”? Who can bring what is pure from the impure? No one! The flesh brings forth fruit unto death. Romans 7 v 25, Galatians 5 v 17, Romans 7 v 18, Proverbs 20 v 9, Job 14 v 4, Romans 7 v 5 (Romans 8 v 13 and James 1 v 15)

 

[Magenta]

Despite what the un-Biblical free will doctrine promoters put forth, the natural man does not have everything he needs in order to grow the good fruit of faith from the stony ground of his incurably wicked heart which is opposed to the things of God, and he cannot change himself, being a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness as a slave to sin, being inherently hostile in his mind toward God, and blinded to the truth while under the power of the evil one. Those who promote the free will of the natural man reject a plethora of Biblical truths. Praise God if Jesus has set you free!

 

[Cameron143]

Perhaps God will send you or others to reach them with the gospel. God bless

Perhaps, but that isn't what is in view. God hasn't sent the gospel to large numbers of people throughout history. What of these people?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm self-taught but feel it to be Holy Spirit-led. So I don't hold to any tradition except those that complement how the Bible reads. I came to the Bible before being heavily exposed to past doctrines.

1. Regardless of what the gift is, the meaning of the word speaks of pistis as something given of supernatural persuasion. Which gives me the belief that pistis is part of the gift or else no one would respond to God due to sin.

2.

Every testimony including mine has a point once we are persuaded that Jesus is Lord and then we accept Him as Lord and Savior.

To believe is to accept Jesus's finished work on the cross.

Where people get confused is thinking that belief is legalistic.

But there are plenty of scriptures that call on the unbelievers to believe which would be a lie if they could not.

“I'm self-taught but feel it to be Holy Spirit-led. So I don't hold to any tradition except those that complement how the Bible reads. I came to the Bible before being heavily exposed to past doctrines. “
“And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, And every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: For all shall know me, From the least to the greatest.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Ninevah did hear the word of God. So obviously not talking about them. And I don't believe fairness is an attribute of God. He is said to be righteous. And it is certain that large swaths of humanity never heard the gospel. There are still those today who have not heard the gospel. What of these?

So God is not fair. he is evil

Got it

was the gospel sent to Canaan, causing Abraham and Israel to be tied up in Israel for 400 years.

Yes the gospel was sent to ninevah, even thouigh they were deep in sin.. why? God knew they would repent.

I have spoken to missionaries who say the same thing, they went to these places no one had ever been before. and were received with Joy, some of them being told God said he would send someone. Like he did Saul??

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Scripture makes it very clear [to those who will hear] that God chose a people to be His before time began [saints, set aside]. Try reading His word beginning with Eph 1:3 and notice that His word is speaking of things done in the past.
Even though God sets various people aside as belonging to Him, it may not become evident for many years. But, it will happen at His time of choosing. This applies to those in OT times, as well as those in NT times.
Those chosen are not any better than those not chosen. But, God will in time show them mercy. Others will not receive mercy and will condemn themselves.

God never speaks of His fairness, and He is a debtor to no man. In fact He says:
Rom 9:21 - Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

again, You have god withholding his salvation from people. then casting them out to hell with not even a chance to believe

This is not a loving God.. this buys right into satan's lie about God. that he does not care. he is a dictator. and he wants you to do his bidding. and does not care one bit about you

etc,, he is keeping things from you (his lie to eve)

seems like this lie continues today

God is keeping the truth from many people so he can send them to hell.. OUCH!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

God's Justice is an integral part of His divine nature.

SO is his LOVE

Love and justice work together.. And God is not only vindicated. But faultless

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That is very true! And His justice for His chosen people was satisfied in Christ's death and resurrection.

actually his justice fall all his creation (mankind) was satisfied.

1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

But again, he will not force it on you.. Nor will he keep it from you

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Regarding your previous statement about legalism, man's will is bent away from God, being inherently hostile in his mind toward Him, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness as a lover of darkness and a slave to sin refusing to come into the light. That is what the Bible teaches and further articulates that man is unable to submit or obey, and that includes to the commands to repent and believe. Those who are able to respond in the positive to God's call do so because they have been set free from being under the power and influence of the devil. With the heart one believes. Man's heart is incurably wicked (he cannot change himself any more than a leopard can change his spots or an Ethiopian the color of his skin) and not good ground for producing good fruit, but the free will crowd rejects what Jesus said in that regard also. They claim man needs nothing and is born able to submit despite all the verses opposed to such declarations.

from Revelation 3 verse 17-18 ~ You say, ‘I need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

Oh absolutely a total depraved state. But I guess where we may disagree is I simply believe after God moved first to draw all unto Himself, my mind goes to the contradiction.

If God draws all but not all are saved then what prevents their salvation? God the all-sovereign one or man who rejected God's work within them?

1 Timothy 2:4, which states that God "desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

If God desires all, then all should be saved if free will were absent.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

We can finally agree on something. I'm with you. Paul's spiritual struggle was between the flesh and the Spirit. And the Spirit he did not have until his new birth! Or another way of looking at this is that since God made Paul a partaker of the divine nature (2Pet 1:4), we can see Paul's battle between the two natures. The unregenerate experience no such spiritual warfare.

yes,

unless we are sinless. we all suffer this battle. sadly some more than others.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

He tried freewill. It didn't work, so He flooded the place and started over with somebody who made better decisions. Well, till he got drunk. The whole family's guilty now. Thank God for Jesus. He did it right this time and ended all the unecessary questions.

yes

He died for the world. so whoever believes will never perish.

but whoever remains in unbelief, they will remain condemned

no questions..

God forces everyone to make a choice.

chose wisely.;.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Nothing will mar the perfect existence of the saints in the eternal New Order. God will erase all bad memories forever (Isa 65:17).

I do not think he erases the memories of people we know and loved.