Israel.

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Jan 17, 2023
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Why haven't you mentioned Germany as one of the enemies? Do you define them as an enemy? They're the ones who supposedly committed the most heinous act against modern Jewish people.
Why this comment? What do you mean by "supposedly"?


Despite adherence to the covenant? That isn't like the Almighty to contradict what He said.
Abrhamic covenant was unconditional.
 
Jan 17, 2023
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Full disclosure, I subscribe to a historicist view of eschatology, which means I believe the prophetic events in the book of Revelation are being fulfilled in order and throughout human history, starting with the Messiah's ascension to heaven, and then spanning the last 2000 years, with a bit more left to be fulfilled.

And from that perspective, I believe the modern state of Israel is the Beast of the earth...or at least part of it, with the USA as the other part of it. The modern state of Israel is one horn, and the modern government of the USA is the other horn.
Absolutely wrong. I have no idea how people come up with such convoluted theories reading the Word.
 
Sep 22, 2013
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Why this comment? What do you mean by "supposedly"?
It is supposed by many to be "the most heinous act" against the people.


Definition of Supposedly - according to what is generally assumed or believed (often used to indicate that the speaker doubts the truth of the statement).

Contextual Reference:

lrs68: "Modern day enemies were many of the ancient enemies like Babylon, Persia, Philistine."

Yahshua: "Why haven't you mentioned Germany as one of the [modern day] enemies?"

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I have my doubts of the veracity of the account, but that's another matter. None of the groups mentioned are responsible for what is supposedly the most heinous act committed against them in modern day.
 

lrs68

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2024
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Why haven't you mentioned Germany as one of the enemies? Do you define them as an enemy? They're the ones who supposedly committed the most heinous act against modern Jewish people.
Hitler is not a Nation or a People.

Despite adherence to the covenant? That isn't like the Almighty to contradict what He said.
Paul explained that and not my issue it must be ignored or rejected to keep a false doctrine.
 
Sep 22, 2013
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Absolutely wrong. I have no idea how people come up with such convoluted theories reading the Word.
You're welcome to provide a counterargument...you know...more than just replies like "Romans 11", "abrahamic covenant", and other emphatic statements. I'd happily read it. There's a whole lot of bible to reference.
 
Nov 25, 2024
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I’ve been wondering lately if the nation of Israel today made by those you’re talking about after the war , is part of that strong delusion meant to convince people to believe a lie. Sort of an earthly counterfeit that really speaks more like a dragon than a lamb
This makes sense to me.

Compare what Jesus says, with those who support the Zionist regime at all costs.

Matthew 18:6 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Yet those who support the Zionist regime would prefer the Epstein files to be buried and let hundreds of pedophiles in America and world leadership positions go unpunished, simply because holding these blackmailed perverts to account would link back to the corrupt state who was funding the demonic intelligence operation.
 
Sep 22, 2013
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Hitler is not a Nation or a People.
There aren't polka dots in the sky either, if we were just stating random facts.

Why haven't you mentioned Germany as one of the enemies? Do you define them as an enemy? They're the ones who supposedly committed the most heinous act against modern Jewish people.

Paul explained that and not my issue it must be ignored or rejected to keep a false doctrine.
Explained what?
 
Jan 17, 2023
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It is supposed by many to be "the most heinous act" against the people
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I have my doubts of the veracity of the account.
Oddly, I have yet to find a person that believes in supersessionism that doesn't doubt the Holocaust happened or that millions of Jews were killed. As attested as it has been, with so many witnesses and people still refuse to believe.
 
Sep 2, 2020
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Full disclosure, I subscribe to a historicist view of eschatology, which means I believe the prophetic events in the book of Revelation are being fulfilled in order and throughout human history, starting with the Messiah's ascension to heaven, and then spanning the last 2000 years, with a bit more left to be fulfilled.

And from that perspective, I believe the modern state of Israel is the Beast of the earth...or at least part of it, with the USA as the other part of it. The modern state of Israel is one horn, and the modern government of the USA is the other horn.


- Established in Daniel 7, a "beast" has always prophetically equated to a kingdom/empire, with "horns" representative of governments. So the beast of the earth is an empire with two separate governments linked to each other.


- Both nations were born in a land sparsely inhabited, compared to the beast of the sea, which comes out of many nations/languages; Revelation 17:15 (I believe the beast of the sea was the holy roman empire / Papacy, which led the known world).


- The USA emerged in 1776 as the papacy ended in 1798, and currently leads the known world. The modern state of Israel emerged in 1948 through American funding after the papacy was reestablished in 1929 ("deadly wound healed" Revelation 13:3; Lateran Concordat of 1929 https://lastmessageofmercy.com/images/books/littlehornpt2/Healing_the_Wound.jpg).


- The USA developed the power to call fire down from heaven. The Greek word for heaven is uranos, the same root name given to the material we use for nuclear weapons: Uranium, discovered by a German scientist. The USA literally created the power to call fire from uranium, with the help of German scientists.

- They developed the power to give life to the image (i.e., animate the picture = motion pictures; Hollywood, TV programming created by Jewish millionaires). Germans developed the early form of the technology while the USA perfected it.


- ...and causes anyone who will not worship the image of the beast should be killed (i.e., mainstream media owned by Jewish billionaires propagandizes to make enemies of nations that do not subscribe to Western ideals).


- Causes all the world to have to bear their mark to transact commerce. I believe this is the world's current debt-based economic model of fractional reserve banking, created by the Rothschild family, a Jewish family from Germany.


- Count the number of the beast for it is the number of a man...666...the number of his name. I believe this is literally the name Rothschild, which is German for "red shield" as a reference to the six-pointed, six-sided, six-triangle image that was eventually painted blue, renamed "the star of David" as the banner of the modern state of Israel. I've seen no evidence of King David using a star as his banner. However, the scriptures do reference the pagan Star of Remphan that Steven mentions in his sermon against the Pharisees before they stoned him to death in Acts 7:43.


The last thing I'll add is that in the table of nations (Genesis 10), the people who would be known as Germans are named Ashkenazim or Ashkenazi: the people of Ashkenaz. 90% of people who profess to be Jewish are Ashkenazi. They are of German descent. So there's one small group of nefarious Germans in control across the USA and the modern state of Israel, concealing themselves as people from Judah through convesion to a man-made religion that was contrary to the commandments of Almighty and to the gospel of Messiah.
Yeah I don’t really know about all of it there but I respect your thoughts and how you presented them there.

it sounds like we differ on revelation at some points , but what I had been wondering was if the modern day sort of “man made “ isreal the nation that was declared by the warlords of world war 2 was part of that end times delusion that will lead many astray because they don’t believe the gospel. Possibly some of what your saying there in some places would be what I was considering to be possible . the more I was reflecting on where modern day israel came from
And how they still reject the messiah and wait for another and cling to the old thing while refusing the new tbat can save .

How they depend on technology artificial intelligence and the support of the u.s. military industrial complex to produce all of those devastating weapons and mans form of intelligence and invention of nuclear bombs and things like that that can only possibly lead to destruction of mankind rather than its security but they still never have turned to the messiah Christ Jesus for thier security and salvation so I’m not sure he’s the one restoring them and it seems more like man is trying to force the restoration of Israel on this earth by thier own Will rather than looking to Christ to bring his word to pass which is a new heaven and earth for his people after this world is judged and burned up

Just seems as if man is still trying to cause his word to come to pass rether than letting him accomplish it as he said he would ….in Christ when they turn to him with thier hearts and away from thier separatist law

seems like once we reject him and the gospel there’s nothing left but lies and counterfeits like man trying to build that tower to God instead of accepting the golden ladder he offers that leads there to the lord above it

i think or at least I’ve been wondering if this version of Israel tbat came from the ashes of ww2 and really the whole world order with the United Nations and the g7 and everything they have globalized governance ect all of those things line up with a lot of biblical prophecy but not in the way people think ….
 
Sep 22, 2013
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Oddly, I have yet to find a person that believes in supersessionism that doesn't doubt the Holocaust happened or that millions of Jews were killed. As attested as it has been, with so many witnesses and people still refuse to believe.
Well, it's a big world out there. I doubt you've met everyone. I guess you've virtually met one now. I don't believe in the church replacing the Jews, but I believe in Christ-believing Jews and Christ-believing Gentiles becoming Israel.

As far as the "most heinous act," I doubt the official number of casualties because the math doesn't add up. And I find it suspicious that for other groups who were victims of atrocities, society tells them to "move on it's in the past" but for that act we're told to "never forget" and in some nations it's a crime to even question the account. Like literally a punishable crime. That's suspiciously controling.
 
Sep 22, 2013
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Yeah I don’t really know about all of it there but I respect your thoughts and how you presented them there.

it sounds like we differ on revelation at some points , but what I had been wondering was if the modern day sort of “man made “ isreal the nation that was declared by the warlords of world war 2 was part of that end times delusion that will lead many astray because they don’t believe the gospel. Possibly some of what your saying there in some places would be what I was considering to be possible . the more I was reflecting on where modern day israel came from
And how they still reject the messiah and wait for another and cling to the old thing while refusing the new tbat can save .

How they depend on technology artificial intelligence and the support of the u.s. military industrial complex to produce all of those devastating weapons and mans form of intelligence and invention of nuclear bombs and things like that that can only possibly lead to destruction of mankind rather than its security but they still never have turned to the messiah Christ Jesus for thier security and salvation so I’m not sure he’s the one restoring them and it seems more like man is trying to force the restoration of Israel on this earth by thier own Will rather than looking to Christ to bring his word to pass which is a new heaven and earth for his people after this world is judged and burned up

Just seems as if man is still trying to cause his word to come to pass rether than letting him accomplish it as he said he would ….in Christ when they turn to him with thier hearts and away from thier separatist law

seems like once we reject him and the gospel there’s nothing left but lies and counterfeits like man trying to build that tower to God instead of accepting the golden ladder he offers that leads there to the lord above it

i think or at least I’ve been wondering if this version of Israel tbat came from the ashes of ww2 and really the whole world order with the United Nations and the g7 and everything they have globalized governance ect all of those things line up with a lot of biblical prophecy but not in the way people think ….
That's fair.