Making a case for women in leadership

[Snackersmom]

“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be contrary to your husband,
but he shall rule over you.”

That is a statement made to a wife regarding her husbands' authority over her. Are you saying that it applies to all women regarding all men, not just the man they marry? 🤔

 

[Dino246]

That is a statement made to a wife regarding her husbands' authority over her. Are you saying that it applies to all women regarding all men, not just the man they marry? 🤔

While it is about husband and wife, it is not saying that the husband shall have authority over the wife. Rather, it says that, as a consequence of sin, "he shall rule over you". That's the unpleasant outcome for her, and for almost every woman since.

 

[Mem]

That Eve messed up first certainly did gave Adam the fodder to dangle her guilt over her head at every opportunity it might give him advantage. I can imagine...
Eve trying to make a suggestion as to where they should camp for the night. Adam, "Quite, woman!"

 

[timemeddler]

Statements of certain consequence, not commands. The statements made to Adam tell us that.

some difference.

 

[timemeddler]

That is a statement made to a wife regarding her husbands' authority over her. Are you saying that it applies to all women regarding all men, not just the man they marry? 🤔

that would hardly be logical to have complete strangers being able to order women as they wish.

 

[timemeddler]

While it is about husband and wife, it is not saying that the husband shall have authority over the wife. Rather, it says that, as a consequence of sin, "he shall rule over you". That's the unpleasant outcome for her, and for almost every woman since.

more like a discplinary ruling.

 

[Mem]

more like a discplinary ruling.

A correction that, although has proliferated? since, has yet solve the problem, even as hordes of women have submitted to man's authority. This has even been iron set into civil law in some communities. Hijab anyone?

 

[Mem]

Speaking of Hijabs. I've heard that these are worn as a sign of Allah's protection from being rape and anyone that fails to wear them are 'fair game.' How's that for discipline?

 

[timemeddler]

A correction that, although has proliferated? since, has yet solve the problem, even as hordes of women have submitted to man's authority. This has even been iron set into civil law in some communities. Hijab anyone?

?????????????

 

[Dino246]

some difference.

There’s a massive difference: one is God’s will and the other is only His foresight.

 

[Snackersmom]

that would hardly be logical to have complete strangers being able to order women as they wish.

Agree! But in that case, I'm curious how you feel the verse you suggested fits into this particular context? 🤔

 

[Snackersmom]

more like a discplinary ruling.

In that case, men are under a "disciplinary ruling" as well, Genesis 3:17

Funny, I rarely if ever hear THAT verse quoted, but the one about Eves' consequences gets quoted A LOT. 🤔

 

[Snackersmom]

more like a discplinary ruling.

In that case, men are under a "disciplinary ruling" as well, Genesis 3:17

Funny, I rarely if ever hear THAT verse quoted, but the one about Eves' consequences gets quoted A LOT. 🤔

 

[Snackersmom]

While it is about husband and wife, it is not saying that the husband shall have authority over the wife. Rather, it says that, as a consequence of sin, "he shall rule over you". That's the unpleasant outcome for her, and for almost every woman since.

Hi Dino, I hear what you are saying but I asked because I was curious about @timemeddler 's point in bringing up that verse specifically.

But yes, being born female can itself feel like a curse at times. Not because of anything God says or does, but because of the way men try to lord it over us. I even knew a guy who used the verse about Adam ruling over Eve to try to pressure a girl to date him.

She was NOT impressed! 😂

 

[Blain]

I don't agree with the whole men ruling over women view and the arrogance of men who actually believe and try to enforce it or push it on women is absolutely insulting to me.

There is but one man that rules over them and men and that is Christ himself

 

[Dino246]

Hi Dino, I hear what you are saying but I asked because I was curious about @timemeddler 's point in bringing up that verse specifically.

But yes, being born female can itself feel like a curse at times. Not because of anything God says or does, but because of the way men try to lord it over us. I even knew a guy who used the verse about Adam ruling over Eve to try to pressure a girl to date him.

She was NOT impressed! 😂

I won’t ask if this “girl” was you.

 

[Fillan]

This one verse just doesn't make sense to me if indeed women are subhuman in the church and Jesus himself never forbid women of such a thing he never even addressed it

Hello Blain. People are called to serve in different capacities, it doesn't mean anyone is subhuman or that anyone is higher than anyone else, or that some service is more valuable than other service. Perhaps it's a mistake to look on the church as a hierarchy because:

Matthew 20: 25-27 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave.

Matthew 23: 8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers"

God Bless

 

[timemeddler]

Agree! But in that case, I'm curious how you feel the verse you suggested fits into this particular context? 🤔

closest equivalent reference I could think of in the old testament to women having authority over men in 2 timothy.

 

[timemeddler]

In that case, men are under a "disciplinary ruling" as well, Genesis 3:17

Funny, I rarely if ever hear THAT verse quoted, but the one about Eves' consequences gets quoted A LOT. 🤔

I'm not sure if I've ever heard either quoted outside of bible studies. I have heard people try to use other stuff in that section of the bible to somehow say men were always wearing pants though, as ridiculous as that is.

 

[Blain]

Hello Blain. People are called to serve in different capacities, it doesn't mean anyone is subhuman or that anyone is higher than anyone else, or that some service is more valuable than other service. Perhaps it's a mistake to look on the church as a hierarchy because:

Matthew 20: 25-27 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave.

Matthew 23: 8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers"

God Bless

True these verses are very true and this is why I do not believe that women cannot fill the shoes that man has left abandoned. many are called to the office but as you can see in this day and age many are false teachers and preachers money hungry self glorifying bigots

And you know God has used women preachers and pastors in mighty ways here is a true story there was a elderly women who started a church in Texas and allowed black and gay and trans and all kinds of sinners into the church she happened to have startedd it near the base of a the klu klux clan they came to visit her and threatened to skin her alive if she diddn't shut down her church. her responce was you will have to go through fire before you can touch me athey laughed and gave her until the next day to shut it down

upon reaching their base they literally wet themselves because their base was engulfed in a blazing fire they never went near this women again. if God can do that for this women who by all means should not have been the pastor then that says something ddoesn't it?