Does man have a freewill ?

[NewLifeInChrist]

Exactly... just honed in on this part!

Faith exercised correctly in Christ Jesus is the condition.... it is the "through" but salvation is received and it is the gift.

Yes, by grace through faith. Concerning "faith exercised correctly" God is the judge. I find great insight into this in Hebrews 4...

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. (Heb 4:11–13)​

He knows when/if we have entered His rest because nothing is hidden from His sight, including the tought and intents of our hearts.

 

[Cameron143]

God can do anything but the point is there was only the one man of God that traveled listed for those days. And it took him dying before he repented. Even after he preached and Ninevah was saved he still was mad about it.

The issue is always [timing]. Ninevah was ripe at that moment. Only Jonah was available. Had another month or 2 went by waiting for someone else who knows if the hearts of Ninevah would still be fertile soil. But we do know that it was then and only then and God commands Jonah to go.

But had he not repented...

Who made them ripe? Was God drawing them or Jonah?

 

[lrs68]

Who made them ripe? Was God drawing them or Jonah?

God!


Here's something truly enlightening.
King David, as an old man looking back on his life had these words to say:

23 The steps of a good man [we know this means SAVED MAN] are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way.

24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand.

 

[Magenta]

Yes, basically.

And yet that contradicts what Jesus said about nobody being able to come to Him unless God draws them
and then those given to Jesus will come. God draws us with loving kindness, and in order to be aware of
God's drawing something in man's inherent nature must be changed because the natural man can neither
receive nor comprehend the spiritual things of God.

I'm pushing back on the idea that only certain people can trust in Christ for the salvation of their souls.

You are pushing against what Scripture teaches.

God has chosen to save the people who choose to use that ability when presented with the gospel.

LOL. The gospel is foolishness to the natural man. His heart and ears need circumcising.
Yes, it is God's choice of to whom and of when He does this. You are saying man does
not need it done until after he has already done what is contrary to his nature.

I didn't mean it to be disrespectful. I was just referring to it as a switch because Calvinists tend to see faith as something that does not exist until it is granted (i.e., like a light coming on inside their hearts).

I am not a Calvinist. The natural man's faith is in himself: he has replaced God on the throne with his own self just as Adam did.

Hey I just got to work, I will continue this later...

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

2 Tim 1:9
Please note that the fact that we are saved was settled way before clocks and calendars were invented.
This is not just foreknowledge, it is a decision and action which took place before time began. And, if it was before time began, the decision was God's alone.

Hmmm. That's hard to wrap one's head around. Kind of like looking at the stars and pondering how physical matter could extend forever in every direction or how it could end. What would be on the other side?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Those who believed God that by looking at the serpent would heal them looked at the serpent. They did make a choice to look based on whether they believed or not. But their belief came when God spoke.

but not when God regenerated them.. He saved them because they looked.

God spoke to the others also. and they did not believe

Faith isn't dependent upon repentance. Repentance is born out of faith.

Um no. If you have not changed your thinking, you will not trust in something or someone, if you did not trust them before. which the lost did not.

sorry, but this is not coirrect

I chose to repent and be baptized as a result of faith. I didn't choose to believe; that was birthed in me by the Spirit and the word.

You chose.

thank you

And yes, You chose because you chose to trust God.. and not reject him

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That's because you misrepresent what I said. I didn't say God doesn't use people. I said He doesn't use people to draw an individual to Himself.

this is nonsensical. and not in scripture

He uses people to share the gospel. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation; not people.

People giving the gospel is God using people to draw them to himself.

And we don't produce fruit. It's called the fruit of the Spirit, not the fruit of the believer. We are branches. We merely bear fruit.

Ah.. And if a branch does not bear fruit.

bearing fruit and producing fruit is pretty much the same. Yes God is the power behind it. But if we do not act. then there is no fruit.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You possess no power to draw people to God. God may infuse you with His power, and use you, but the power to draw is of God. I call what you say as pride and self-importance.

God using us with his power. is God using us to draw people to himself.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

In such a case as you have described, would God's will have been accomplished if the person never showed up at your church?

no

 

[lrs68]

2 Tim 1:9
Please note that the fact that we are saved was settled way before clocks and calendars were invented.
This is not just foreknowledge, it is a decision and action which took place before time began. And, if it was before time began, the decision was God's alone.

Actually look closer at this Verse. I don't mind your post and meaning but I think your Verse has a different meaning.

9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Do you know what God called you to do that fulfills God's purpose? A Holy Calling is the role God designed for each person to do that ultimately benefits the goal God has in mind.

From Preachers to Teachers to Deacons to Ushers to being a Witness [the only Jesus Christ the people at your job will ever see in this life] or something else, we all have something to do that God purposed so His Plan gets accomplished.

Do you know what your Holy Calling is?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

And yet that is exactly what scripture proclaims! Yes the call goes out to all, but God tells us He will have mercy on those of His choosing

again, taking romans 9 out of context..

God does not desire than anyone should perish, but all should come to repentance

 

[Cameron143]

but not when God regenerated them.. He saved them because they looked.

God spoke to the others also. and they did not believe


Um no. If you have not changed your thinking, you will not trust in something or someone, if you did not trust them before. which the lost did not.

sorry, but this is not coirrect



You chose.

thank you

And yes, You chose because you chose to trust God.. and not reject him

He saved them because they believed. They believed and so they looked.

You have looking as the cause of their salvation. This contradicts Ephesians 2:8-9. Faith leads to salvation, not repentance.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

He saved them because they believed. They believed and so they looked.

yes, they chose to believe, as apposed to those who did not believe

You have looking as the cause of their salvation. This contradicts Ephesians 2:8-9. Faith leads to salvation, not repentance.

No. I have grace as the cause of salvation. But God said whoever looks in faith will be saved.

God said it not me.. I can't save myself all I did was receive Gods salvation

 

[Cameron143]

this is nonsensical. and not in scripture

People giving the gospel is God using people to draw them to himself.




Ah.. And if a branch does not bear fruit.

bearing fruit and producing fruit is pretty much the same. Yes God is the power behind it. But if we do not act. then there is no fruit.

Yes, using people. We have this treasure in earthen vessels so that the power is credited to God...2 Corinthians 4:7-10. People are used. The power is of God.

Plant a branch and see how much fruit you get. Jesus said you can do nothing apart from Him.

 

[lrs68]

Ephesians 2:8-9.

For by grace you have been saved through faith.

Doesn't those Verses basically say Jesus died [the act of Grace] but you have to believe [Faith] that He died in order to be saved?

 

[Cameron143]

yes, they chose to believe, as apposed to those who did not believe


No. I have grace as the cause of salvation. But God said whoever looks in faith will be saved.

God said it not me.. I can't save myself all I did was receive Gods salvation

No, according to you, you chose to believe. God only made it possible. The decision was yours, not God's. He didn't produce the faith in you by His word and Spirit. You did that all by yourself.

 

[Cameron143]

For by grace you have been saved through faith.

Doesn't those Verses basically say Jesus died [the act of Grace] but you have to believe [Faith] that He died in order to be saved?

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. We do believe as a result of God employing His Spirit and word. Are you the Spirit? Are you the word of God? Then you didn't cause your belief; God did. That's the issue. Certainly the cross is an act of love and grace. But the grace spoken of in the passage is faith.

 

[lrs68]

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. We do believe as a result of God employing His Spirit and word. Are you the Spirit? Are you the word of God? Then you didn't cause your belief; God did. That's the issue. Certainly the cross is an act of love and grace. But the grace spoken of in the passage is faith.

I'm not saying anything pertaining to how you responded. But from how you did respond doesn't man have the ability to choose not to believe?

 

[Cameron143]

God using us with his power. is God using us to draw people to himself.

Right, that's what I've been saying.

 

[Cameron143]

yes, they chose to believe, as apposed to those who did not believe


No. I have grace as the cause of salvation. But God said whoever looks in faith will be saved.

God said it not me.. I can't save myself all I did was receive Gods salvation

Did you believe apart from faith?
Did you produce the faith that saved you or was it by hearing, and hearing by the word of God?