Loss of salvation???

[posthuman]

Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if there might be a ring in here. Refuses to acknowledge the Cross as the place where sin is dealt with, has no understanding of regeneration? I know of another religion that is quite hostile to Christianity and Judaism that would adhere to those beliefs.

baptismal regeneration was an early and pervasive belief in the organized church. they went so far as to refuse baptism until their deathbeds, believing that sins after baptism could not be forgiven, because baptism was the only mechanism that forgives sins and could only be done once. the thinking is what led to the practice of infant baptism as well, as the rite became a kind of idol, to the point that a theology developed in which belief and actions didn't matter at all, only the baptism itself.

 

[DeepSeeker]

AMEN, nothing live without water.

Being Repent and be baptized in JESUS name to get rid of our sins.

If repentance is necessary; then why did Jesus die on The Cross ?
Deepseeker

 

[DeepSeeker]

For Whom was water baptism given to? Who water baptised?
What did He say when He saw Jesus coming ? ?

 

[Ouch]

how many of us in this conversation do you imagine are unbaptized?

because my guess is zero

"a much better argument is that Eve was the first reborn, when her name was changed from Woman - or Adam, when he, having heard and believing the gospel, changed it for her."

I don't argue I just share HIS word and let him do the talking.

I HAVE NO idea why you bring up OT names???

"since they were added to them, they cannot have been the first"

The first person was added to the kingdom of GOD, the second, the third. WHY DO YOU QUESTION HIS WORD?

If they were not the first tell me who was? I'm humble.

"i always find it odd when people think they need to evangelize believers."

Just believing does not get you reborn!!!

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 in YOUR WORDS. Peter said unto them YOUR GOOD TO GO, and about three thousand souls were added.

BUT it does not say that!!!
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

"how many of us in this conversation do you imagine are unbaptized?
because my guess is zero"

I don't have a clue, I also ask but can't get direct answers to how many has been filled with the Holy Ghost like in Acts 2:4?

Why would anyone think they even need to be baptized in JESUS name to get rid of their sins and the need for JESUS to fill them with the Holy Ghost if so many people tell them they don't need to?

Think of all of the blood on those fokes hands, SAD.

 

[Ouch]

ROFL

You do realise don't you by claiming the first to hear the Gospel were the first to be reborn has a spiritually dead apostle preaching the Gospel.

You're ignorance is quite amusing if it wasn't so sad.

Ignorance?

I don't get into insults or react to them.

You have a good point, so this is what we know.

Peter was filled with the Holy Ghost moments eairer.

JESUS said this in,
Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

So who was speaking in Acts 2:38-39? How did Peter know we had to be baptized in JESUS name? How did Peter know the message WAS FOR ALL including the Samaritans in Acts 8 or the Gentiles in Acts 10?

When did being bapitzed in JESUS name start? Yep Acts 2:38-39

So like in Acts 10 the 120 in the upper room received the Holy Ghost THEN GOT BAPTIZED IN JESUS name.

They were a part of the 3 thousand souls added.

 

[posthuman]

I HAVE NO idea why you bring up OT names???

then i suggest you get serious about actually studying and understanding God's Word.

 

[posthuman]

The first person was added to the kingdom of GOD,

i agree, the first man Adam was indeed added to the kingdom of God.

he heard the gospel, believed it, and witnessing to the fact, he also demonstrated his converting faith by acting on it.

 

[posthuman]

If they were not the first tell me who was? I'm humble.

previously discussed, see the post you replied to, and also the one above this one.

see also Matthew 21:31 if you're still under the deception that the Kingdom of God was empty and void before Acts 2.

 

[posthuman]

@Ouch if you want to talk about historical baptismal regeneration, that's fine, but this isn't the thread for it and you're not making much of a case.

i think it's probably more important to address your apparent ignorance of the gospel in what you call the OT - until you understand what the. Bible is, it doesn't do a whole lot of good to go around quoting it haphazardly.

so i suggest maybe we discuss John 5:39 some before we continue any further with repeadetdly answering your question about rebirth, seeing that the answers so far fall on an unhearing ear..

what do you understand about what God has told and revealed to us by what He says in John 5:39?

 

[posthuman]

but this isn't the thread for it

who am i kidding lol

people with a pet theology will turn any thread into a forum for it. Just look at how many places i bring up Genesis 3 haha

i suppose the reality is that is how discussion really works.

might as well put this here too:

• does kjv allow women to wear pants, and if so are they only non-alcoholic pants?

 

[Musicmaster]

Ignorance?

I don't get into insults or react to them.

You have a good point, so this is what we know.

Peter was filled with the Holy Ghost moments eairer.

JESUS said this in,
Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

So who was speaking in Acts 2:38-39? How did Peter know we had to be baptized in JESUS name? How did Peter know the message WAS FOR ALL including the Samaritans in Acts 8 or the Gentiles in Acts 10?

When did being bapitzed in JESUS name start? Yep Acts 2:38-39

So like in Acts 10 the 120 in the upper room received the Holy Ghost THEN GOT BAPTIZED IN JESUS name.

They were a part of the 3 thousand souls added.

You are indeed immersed in replacement theology to think that Jesus and the eleven were speaking to YOU, or US today. Replacement theology has so many people messed up with the sentiment that if Jesus spoke it, then it applies to us today, especially all that the apostles spoke.

Dude, you should begin reading scripture through rightly dividing rather than trying to force together what doesn't belong together.

MM

 

[sawdust]

Ignorance?

I don't get into insults or react to them.

You just did.

So who was speaking in Acts 2:38-39? How did Peter know we had to be baptized in JESUS name?

Because he had just been baptized into Jesus moments earlier.

How did Peter know the message WAS FOR ALL including the Samaritans in Acts 8 or the Gentiles in Acts 10?

He didn't. He was speaking to "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2. He should have known, but he was still slow to learn.

Acts 2:36
36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

It wasn't until the Samaritans had received the word by Phillip the evangelist that they went to them and it wasn't until the Spirit fell on Cornelius and his household did he recognise it was for the Gentiles as well. Peter and his group were very surprised God poured out His Spirit on the Gentiles like he did the Jews.

Acts 8:14
14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samar′ia had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,

Acts 10:45
45 And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles

The forum is playing up on me again and won't let me quote you but in regards to the 120 in the upper room there was no "receiving the Holy Spirit and then being baptized in Jesus name". They were baptized with the Holy Spirit then Peter started preaching when those who saw what was happening started questioning what was going on.

I get why you think being baptized in Jesus name and being baptized with the Holy Spirit are different baptisms. The apostles were slow to learn. Peter should have known the Gospel was for the Samaritans and the Gentiles because Jesus told him before He left. He also should have known that water baptism had ended, because now, the baptism one was to receive was the baptism with the Spirit.

Acts 1:4-8
4 And while staying with them he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me, 5 for John baptized with water, but before many days you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samar′ia and to the end of the earth.”

It would seem in Peter's mind "the ends of the earth" didn't include the Gentiles until his encounter with Cornelius. Do you honestly think Peter would have gone into a Gentile's home if the Lord had not sent that vision? Peter was still struggling with the concept in Galatians.

Gal.2:11-12
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he ate with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.

It would take the Cornelius encounter for Peter to finally wake up and remember what the Lord had told them all before he left.

Acts 11:15-16
15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

There was to be one baptism in the Church, that being with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

 

[Ouch]

@Ouch if you want to talk about historical baptismal regeneration, that's fine, but this isn't the thread for it and you're not making much of a case.

i think it's probably more important to address your apparent ignorance of the gospel in what you call the OT - until you understand what the. Bible is, it doesn't do a whole lot of good to go around quoting it haphazardly.

so i suggest maybe we discuss John 5:39 some before we continue any further with repeadetdly answering your question about rebirth, seeing that the answers so far fall on an unhearing ear..

what do you understand about what God has told and revealed to us by what He says in John 5:39?

No reason for insults.

I don't know it all, but I do know that people in OT had a total different relanship with GOD and how to get rid of their sins.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

NT

Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

So searching scripture we see how to be reborn NT.

When you search scripture what do you find on how to be reborn.

 

[Ouch]

You are indeed immersed in replacement theology to think that Jesus and the eleven were speaking to YOU, or US today. Replacement theology has so many people messed up with the sentiment that if Jesus spoke it, then it applies to us today, especially all that the apostles spoke.

Dude, you should begin reading scripture through rightly dividing rather than trying to force together what doesn't belong together.

MM

Thank you for all of your wisdom.

Just like John I crying in the wilderness hoping someone will listen to HIS WORD.

Have YOU received the Holy Ghost since you have believed.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

 

[Ouch]

You just did.



Because he had just been baptized into Jesus moments earlier.



He didn't. He was speaking to "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2. He should have known, but he was still slow to learn.

Acts 2:36
36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

It wasn't until the Samaritans had received the word by Phillip the evangelist that they went to them and it wasn't until the Spirit fell on Cornelius and his household did he recognise it was for the Gentiles as well. Peter and his group were very surprised God poured out His Spirit on the Gentiles like he did the Jews.

Acts 8:14
14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samar′ia had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,

Acts 10:45
45 And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles

The forum is playing up on me again and won't let me quote you but in regards to the 120 in the upper room there was no "receiving the Holy Spirit and then being baptized in Jesus name". They were baptized with the Holy Spirit then Peter started preaching when those who saw what was happening started questioning what was going on.

I get why you think being baptized in Jesus name and being baptized with the Holy Spirit are different baptisms. The apostles were slow to learn. Peter should have known the Gospel was for the Samaritans and the Gentiles because Jesus told him before He left. He also should have known that water baptism had ended, because now, the baptism one was to receive was the baptism with the Spirit.

Acts 1:4-8
4 And while staying with them he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me, 5 for John baptized with water, but before many days you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samar′ia and to the end of the earth.”

It would seem in Peter's mind "the ends of the earth" didn't include the Gentiles until his encounter with Cornelius. Do you honestly think Peter would have gone into a Gentile's home if the Lord had not sent that vision? Peter was still struggling with the concept in Galatians.

Gal.2:11-12
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he ate with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.

It would take the Cornelius encounter for Peter to finally wake up and remember what the Lord had told them all before he left.

Acts 11:15-16
15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

There was to be one baptism in the Church, that being with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

What is water baptism for?

SCRIPTURE.

 

[sawdust]

What is water baptism for?

SCRIPTURE.

After all I have said you think I think water baptism has a place in the Church?

ONE Baptism, hint, it's not with water.

 

[sawdust]

What is water baptism for?

SCRIPTURE.

The question should have been ..... "what WAS water baptism for?"

 

[posthuman]

When you search scripture what do you find on how to be reborn.

i've answered your question about 15 times now but you haven't answered what God reveals to us by what He says in John 5:39

Nicodemus asks how one can be reborn.
God answers, no one has ascended to heaven except the Son of Man Who also descended and Who is in heaven.

what does that tell us about John 5:39?

 

[posthuman]

What is water baptism for?

SCRIPTURE.

Genesis 18:1-5​

And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.​

 

[mailmandan]

baptismal regeneration was an early and pervasive belief in the organized church. they went so far as to refuse baptism until their deathbeds, believing that sins after baptism could not be forgiven, because baptism was the only mechanism that forgives sins and could only be done once. the thinking is what led to the practice of infant baptism as well, as the rite became a kind of idol, to the point that a theology developed in which belief and actions didn't matter at all, only the baptism itself.

False religion turns symbols and shadows of our salvation into the substance and the source.