The Error is Baptism in Jesus name only for salvation
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O
ocean
Guest
I posted a link to a post where it was plainly stated by wansvic that you must be water baptized or you are not saved. further, that is part of their doctrine so....
here is the post again wherein it is plainly stated that if you are not water baptized you are cut off from the covenant meaning the new covenant/salvation. the same with tongues...no tongues, no salvation. according to their doctrine I was not saved for 13 years even though I was water baptized and most definitely had accepted Christ but had not yet spoken in tongues even though I had never heard of it. These doctrines of the oneness gang are wicked and not biblical imo
"ocean, post: 5510345, member: 333985"]looks like we have a case of wansvic telling someone that if you are not baptized, you are cut off. all the questions asked him are answered by him somewhere even though he refuses to answer now . the reference is to the NT, so no water, no farther is what is being said by wansvic . cut off from the covenant, would be the NT covenant. smh this was in a thread asking the question 'how do you get saved' so obviously wansvic considers water baptism an integral part of salvation
wansvic post 549
God commanded everyone living in the NT to be water baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin. Just as He commanded circumcision of those living in the OT. Those who refuse to believe and obey His command of water baptism will find themselves cut off from the covenant.
we have the answer in wansvics own words so he cannot deny that belief even if he does not answer from now until 2165
He's probably using The story of the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:35-39) demonstrates the order of events: he confessed his faith in Jesus, was then baptized, and received the Holy Spirit for his example.
O
ocean
Guest
They add to what Jesus did for us. It ends up being Jesus obedience & our work of baptism & speaking in tongues = salvation
I don't believe water baptism is a work. It is obedience which shows our identity with Jesus in His death, hence the submersion and then rising out of the water. It is symbolic and I do not see anywhere if you are not baptized you are not saved or if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved.
These doctrines of oneness sound more like what Jesus called burdens and adding to what God said
For the record I am water baptized (was 13 I think) and do have the gift of tongues....around 18 I think.
Frankly, such doctrines TAKE AWAY from what God has given us through His Son. ONLY the sinless blood of Jesus shed on our behalf is acceptable to God as the final sacrifice.
I assume therefore that death bed conversions are irrelevant because they have not been baptised in any name at all.
If they clearly state none is baptised in Jesus name then they are not and cannot be saved.
I'm sure they can wriggle out of it
Millstone comes to mind.
I've been baptised but have not been given the GIFT OF TONGUES.
O
ocean
Guest
Its basically smoke and mirrors. Lets say a person does not believe in the Trinity. Now I don't think that is a good idea, but are they not saved if they have actually accepted Jesus? The problem though, are the other stipulations they introduce for salvation...which the Bible most certainly does not include.
When Jesus said 'It is finished" it was done. Presenting self righteousness, as in I did this or I did that, is not going to be acceptable to God. If those things were righteous in God's view, then why did Jesus have to die
O
ocean
Guest
Jesus is the only way. His sacrifice alone is acceptable to God. There is more than one gift and it seems Paul states not all have the tongues thing going on anyway...and I am neither Charismatic or Pentecostal so He does not bless according to denom either
IMO, making such a fuss about tongues is immature and indicative of making a doctrine that does not exist. ALL the spiritual gifts are listed and I have known people who I absolutely KNOW have gifts but not tongues. so.....
I think for me this is what saves.
John 16:7-11
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you
. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Romans 10:8-13
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Dear Cameron, The disciples were saved before Pentecost; Pentecost was the moment of outward empowerment by the Holy Spirit, not the beginning of their salvation. God bless you, brother.
They don’t reject it they just have studied more scripture and read things like this teaching them about grace and faith
Faith they read or hear this and believe it they don’t reject it and say to believe it means you dont understand
“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
Hebrews 11:6 KJV
some hesr and believe that’s true so they realize they need to seek the lord because they believe he exists
they believe they are saved through faith but they’ve heard Scriptures version of faith
“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
….For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
James 2:17-19, 26 KJV
Then tbey hear things like this and believe what they hear they don’t reason it away and explain why it’s not needed
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
Some believe and so they think I need to believe the gospel and get baptized and Jesus said i shall be saved ….instead others hear it and say “ that’s just not grace and faith “ ….
They read scripture for themselves and notice things and believe them . Peter preaches to these people about Jesus death and resurrection and that he’s lord then they ask what shall we do ?
“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:37-39 KJV
then they don’t try to reason why they don’t need to do anything . Instead they believe that what Peter said is true and th ey act upon it faith means something biblically
To have faith we have to hear and trust the lords word Like Moses here
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt. And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
Exodus 10:21-22 KJV
god tells us something and if we believe him and act upon it because we believe what he promised comes to pass. That’s what baptism is .
The thief is a bad example nothing says he wasn’t baptized
“Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judæa, and all the region round about Jordan, and were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.”
Matthew 3:5-6 KJV
he could very well had been baptized Jesus disciples also kept baptizing people after John . There’s nothing to show he wasn’t baptized it’s a bad example .
Dear Cameron, Jesus' disciples were already true believers—"saved"—before the Day of Pentecost. Jesus, in His final teachings before His crucifixion, referred to the disciples (excluding Judas) as already "clean" (John 13:10) and described them as branches already in the vine (John 15:3-5), indicating their existing faith and union with Him. The coming of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost was a new, powerful outpouring and equipping for ministry, not the initial moment of their salvation. God bless you, brother.
Dear Cameron, Peter explained to the crowd that this was the fulfilment of prophecy (from Joel), and he urged them: "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
God bless you, brother.
I have read a number of your posts on the sovereignty of God, I suspect it was more of a Freudian Slip.
I stand corrected. I obviously had not received my limit of condescending replies for the week.
What you are labeling condescending is simply people pointing out the flawed reasoning in your understanding of scripture.
Just learn from it.
There in truth is only one Baptism, one Faith, one Lord
Acts 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16
because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 10:47
“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
Yet, the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit first, without water Baptism. Me, I would agree, yes lets do it thank you after being given it, without having to do it, you think? I do! Freedom Wow, woe is me Isaiah 6:1-7
Acts 11:16
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
Since this example is for us during the First Church under the leadership of the Apostles isn't this how the process normally goes for anyone saved?
You may be right.
But your understanding of a God unable of give mankind the ability to choose between obedience and disobedience has been noted.