The Error is Baptism in Jesus name only for salvation

[Wansvic]

That's what good disciples do in the tradition, right? I don't doubt that even the disciples of other rabbis stumbled while trying emulate their teacher. Jesus' disciples failed on more than one occasion. Still do.

I think they actually got it right in this case. Especially since they are filled with, and being led by the Holy Ghost to do this evangelism at this point in the scripture. Matthew 28 and Acts 2 are statements that are worded differently but have the same meaning.

mistranslation seems extremely unlikely.

The disciples did baptize according to Matthew 28:19.
The disciples were not expected to repeat Jesus' command but to obey it when administering water baptism. Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. And the apostles did just that. They baptized in the name of Jesus because in Him dwells the fulness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost). Col 2:9

 

[lrs68]

The disciples did baptize according to Matthew 28:19.
The disciples were not to repeat Jesus' command but to obey it when administering water baptism. Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. And the apostles did just that. They baptized in the name of Jesus because in Him dwells the fulness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost). Col 2:9

Again, the disciples obeyed Jesus' command:

The disciples were not expected to repeat Jesus' command but to obey it when administering water baptism. Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. And the apostles did just that. They baptized in the name of Jesus because in Him dwells the fulness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost). Col 2:9

I know the first time I ever read Matthew 28:19 long before I ever knew about trinity or oneness my first immediate question was well who is the name because it states in the name of.

 

[ocean]

When you say oneness do you mean only ONE GOD? If so yes, how many GODS are there? I follow scripture not men or their beliefs.

I'm sure not a catholic with 3 different GODS, so many people blindly follow them and they welcome them.

Yeah I think you know what is meant the way you jumped in on the convo.

I'm not Catholic, but you don't have to throw it out there as the worst insult you can come up with

You follow oneness or similar is what you follow

 

[CS1]

My question is actually: were they saved before He breathed on them?

That is a good question: can one be saved and not know Jesus as Lord? They were all called before the resurrection, as was Judas.


It seemed scriptural and debatable to see where they were saved at that time, as it is the Holy Spirit who enables us to believe. Peter did not save himself. And why would Jesus say to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit and open your understanding' as Luke 24 states? I believe they were called but did not fully understand who Jesus was until the Holy Spirit opened their understanding. Remember, they thought Jesus was going to be king and remove the Romans from Israel. They are running to the tomb; they need to have their understanding opened.

 

[CS1]

Yea, I'm new to CC, but I can tell when someone is dancing around the questions. You not answering is noted wonder why? Because it's NOT in HIS WORD.

Again I did answer. You must have not seen it.

I answered your two questions as I told you before you can agree or not. I careless either way

God Bless and again, welcome to CC

 

[Wansvic]

You are correct regarding the rope so I guess I learned something new. However that changes nothing with regards to you refusing to answer questions that myself and others ask you DIRECTLY. It seems you are hiding what you actually believe so I will just refresh everyone's memory again with three (3) main erroneous beliefs that oneness adherents practice


ocean, post: 5509936, member: 333985"]A little background on the oneness group since it seems difficult to get the oneness rep in this thread to answer questions

First off, the oneness Pentecostals do not believe in the Trinity so of course they do not want anyone to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They believe that God can exist only in one manifestation at a time. No Father or Son or Holy Spirit; just God. So there is no distinction between as we understand the Bible but just different ways that God decides to reveal Himself. Thing is, who is sitting on the right hand of God in heaven if God is now the Holy Spirit indwelling believers and therefore cannot also be in heaven.

But never mind, those questions will not be answered because they reveal the nonsense that oneness is.


Secondly, baptism can only be done in the name of Jesus (or God Jesus I guess) since Oneness is all about oneness and that means God is Jesus etc. Something to consider is this: This teaching started in 1914 when preacher John Schappe said he had a divine revelation where he felt God was telling him we should only be baptized in the name of Jesus. This idea comes from the book of Acts 2:38.

Ah yes. The divine revelation and who are we to question that.


Third, salvation according to oneness individuals is as follows:
Repent and believe in Jesus
Baptism (water) in the name of Jesus ONLY
Infilling of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues necessary and if not, there is no salvation

Your suggestion that Jesus' name water baptism was begun in 1914 is not accurate. The teaching of water baptism in the name of Jesus began in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost as Jesus said it would. And that truth has been realized by people throughout church history. It is well documented.

 

[JBTN]

Which is it? Immersed into Christ? Or immersed into forgiveness of sins? Because they are not the same thing and I don’t think the word carries two different meanings. Actually, I believe just the scriptures, themselves show that what we are immersed in is water. It’s the act of baptism—immersion into water—that puts us into Christ. As Acts 8:37 says, they both went down into the water, both Phillip and the eunuch and he baptized him. No doubt about that at all—it was water baptism. And the eunuch was immersed in water. Then he went on his way rejoicing. No Holy Spirit baptism there.

The baptism in Acts 2:38 could not have been Holy Spirit baptism because Peter said they would get the Holy Spirit as a “gift” AFTER they were baptized (in water.). Baptism in water and then “you WILL RECEIVE, future tense, the Holy Spirit.

The baptisms in Acts 8 were “water” baptisms. I know because they were baptized in verse 12 but did not receive the Holy Spirit until verses 14-17 when Peter and John came from Jerusalem and laid their hands on them. That was not “miraculous” baptism; that was receiving the Holy Spirit through the laying on of the apostles hands.

The truth is, there is no evidence that anyone ever received Holy Spirit baptism other than those in Acts 2 and Acts 10. I know those who believe it saves, see every baptism in the New Tesrament as Holy Spirit baptism, but the proof, the evidence is all for water baptism—not miraculous Holy Spirit baptism.

Both phrases are in scripture and I quoted Ephesians 1:7 to show how immersed into Christ was the same as immersed into forgiveness of sins.

“In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭7‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.1.7.ESV

I‘m not sure what you meant by “I don’t think the word carries two different meanings“.

In Acts 2:38 Peter was speaking to the group as if they hadn’t believed/repented, or been immersed. So everything was ahead of them including the gift of the Holy Spirit. The fact that it is in the future tense doesn’t have the affect you described.

The Philip who went to Samaria wasn’t the Apostle Philip. That is clear from Acts 8:1. Why is this important? The witness had to come from the Apostles first as we see in Acts 1:8. This is like the fact that the gospel had to come to the Gentiles through Peter at the House of Cornelius. It’s there in Acts 1:8 in Jesus’s own words.

“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/act.1.8.ESV

I believe that evidence does exist. Acts 15:8-9 is one example.

“And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15‬:‭8‬-‭9‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/act.15.8-9.ESV

First let’s see who “us” refers to. In Acts 15:6-7 we can see who us refers to.

“The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/act.15.6-7.ESV

So us refers to the apostles and elders who were present.

Now notice that there was no distinction between us and them. The greek word that is translated no is not a simple no. The word is outhen and it means ”not one”. Not one distinction is a pretty strong thing to say. So the elders present also received the Holy Sprit in the same manner as the apostles and the House of Cornelius.

 

[Ouch]

Yeah I think you know what is meant the way you jumped in on the convo.

I'm not Catholic, but you don't have to throw it out there as the worst insult you can come up with

You follow oneness or similar is what you follow

I'm sorry, not trying to insult forgive me.

The trinity is a catholic thing!!

You were so concerned about me, you forgot to answer my question.

Bing baptized is a work? How do you get rid of sins? Be great is you could use scripture to prove it.

 

[DeanM]

When you say oneness do you mean only ONE GOD? If so yes, how many GODS are there? I follow scripture not men or their beliefs.

I'm sure not a catholic with 3 different GODS, so many people blindly follow them and they welcome them.

Who was well pleased when His son Jesus was baptised? Was the holy spirit just a dove? Who did Jesus pray to? Who's Father was Jesus talking about when He said nobody comes to the Father but by me?

 

[lrs68]

In all honesty, God is my Father, He is my Lord and Savior, and I am filled with His Holy Spirit.

Now, however someone wants to define and break that down is up to them. But to me God is all those things.

 

[Ouch]

Again I did answer. You must have not seen it.

I answered your two questions as I told you before you can agree or not. I careless either way

God Bless and again, welcome to CC

LOL, No you haven't. Why don't you care what I think isn't it you job to correct me if I'm wrong? Of course using scripture.

 

[Branch]

Yea, I'm new to CC, but I can tell when someone is dancing around the questions. You not answering is noted wonder why? Because it's NOT in HIS WORD.

You sound a lot like a mother member whose name is Subhumanoidal. Wow! I'm amazed by the similarities in your speech patterns.

 

[ocean]

Your suggestion that Jesus' name water baptism was begun in 1914 is not accurate. The teaching of water baptism in the name of Jesus began in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost as Jesus said it would. And that truth has been realized by people throughout church history. It is well documented.

That's what I found online on a Oneness site but that is small beans compared to you saying a person is not saved if they are not water baptized as in the post above I'm sure you read. That, is what is well documented

"ocean, post: 5510345, member: 333985"]looks like we have a case of wansvic telling someone that if you are not baptized, you are cut off. all the questions asked him are answered by him somewhere even though he refuses to answer now . the reference is to the NT, so no water, no farther is what is being said by wansvic . cut off from the covenant, would be the NT covenant. smh this was in a thread asking the question 'how do you get saved' so obviously wansvic considers water baptism an integral part of salvation

wansvic post 549
God commanded everyone living in the NT to be water baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin. Just as He commanded circumcision of those living in the OT. Those who refuse to believe and obey His command of water baptism will find themselves cut off from the covenant.

 

[CS1]

LOL, No you haven't. Why don't you care what I think isn't it you job to correct me if I'm wrong? Of course using scripture.

if you want to be confrontational, Then move on. If you don't want dialog




Here you go again :



Your points:

1. So keep it simple just show in HIS word where ANYONE was baptized in the name of the father, the son and the Holy Ghost!!!


Good question. Show me where anyone was Baptized and where the words were recorded when they went down in the water ?

What did John say when he Baptized Jesus? You don't know, do you? What about the Enutice Philp Baptized? What did he say, do you know, as he jumped off the camel and jumped into a ditch of water? You don't, so your point is an unlearned qestion and also twisted to fit your agenda.


2. Show where it’s a public declaration of allegiance to Christ.


What do you mean Paul said in Romans 6:1-6


6 Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? 2 Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it? 3 Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death? (Joined with Christ in Baptism is a pretty Powerful Declaration and joined in HIS death. )

4 For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.

5 Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was. 6 We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin.

There you go, your two points answered with the word of God.

 

[ocean]

I'm sorry, not trying to insult forgive me.

The trinity is a catholic thing!!

You were so concerned about me, you forgot to answer my question.

Bing baptized is a work? How do you get rid of sins? Be great is you could use scripture to prove it.

Give it a rest. You came in here looking to snarl at others and I'm not interested. I already have several sparring partners and I'm not looking for more.

I never said a thing about baptism being a work but for the record I don't think it is. Move along and find someone else to play with please

 

[Wansvic]

They do not believe in the Trinity ie 3 persons but one God. This has been stated many times in this thread already

According to the word, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one. This aligns with Col. 2:9: In Jesus dwells the fulness of the Godhead:

1 John 5:7-8
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

 

[ocean]

According to the word, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one. This aligns with Col. 2:9: In Jesus dwells the fulness of the Godhead:

1 John 5:7-8
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

Yeah they are one just like believers are supposed to be one. are we one big living organism that is fighting with itself?

Jesus prayed for us to be one as He and the Father are .He prayed to the Father but carry on and ignore what is obvious about your belief that people are not saved according to you. YOU are not the dispenser of salvation. What did people do before you were born? Die as they were? Or what about those who do not come to this forum? Are they all lost if they do not follow your formula?

There are millions of lives at stake. Jesus died for us all and not just for those who speak in tongues or believe a la/le wansvic

I don't suppose you ever consider that though being in that tight little oneness world of yours

 

[Cameron143]

That is a good question: can one be saved and not know Jesus as Lord? They were all called before the resurrection, as was Judas.


It seemed scriptural and debatable to see where they were saved at that time, as it is the Holy Spirit who enables us to believe. Peter did not save himself. And why would Jesus say to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit and open your understanding' as Luke 24 states? I believe they were called but did not fully understand who Jesus was until the Holy Spirit opened their understanding. Remember, they thought Jesus was going to be king and remove the Romans from Israel. They are running to the tomb; they need to have their understanding opened.

While the apostles were certainly not clear on many things, they had received revelation spiritually before. When Peter referred to Jesus as the Christ and the Son of the living God in Matthew 16, Jesus says Peter received this of the Father. Receiving revelation wasn't exactly new to them. Further, as Jesus identifies this with the building of the church, it's difficult to believe the disciples weren't already saved.
I also agree with@Aaron56 that it was not the promise of the Father. So what was the purpose?

 

[lrs68]

According to the word, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one. This aligns with Col. 2:9: In Jesus dwells the fulness of the Godhead:

1 John 5:7-8
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

Those verses are interesting because I use what most scholars claim to be the oldest text we have and it's very different than your version.

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood.

7 And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

8 For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.

 

[Ouch]

Give it a rest. You came in here looking to snarl at others and I'm not interested. I already have several sparring partners and I'm not looking for more.

I never said a thing about baptism being a work but for the record I don't think it is. Move along and find someone else to play with please

Thank you, have a BLESS DAY.