Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

If God all that the Father gives/draws to the Son come to Him, logically it is by force rather than in faith.

Only if you believe God is morally inferior to the Good Samaritan who rescued a helpless person. And besides, Jesus taught that all that the Father gives to Him WILL come to him! But in your world it would have been much better if the Father had not drawn anyone. This way God could wax as the proverbial EOE (Equal Opportunity Employer) since he would allow all to perish equally. That would have been far more just of God, wouldn't it?

 

[studier]

Watch a bunch of drivel! Most in the world could answer "yes" to at least one of those silly questions; yet, they still refuse to believe! So, what is your point? Don't you know it takes a heart transplant to believe the Gospel? And the transplant does far more than make one "capable" of healing. The transplant IS the life-saving CURE!

I know your tradition thinks a heart transplant is necessary to initially believe in Christ, and I know I along with others in and out of other traditions absolutely disagree with you.

It has ceased to astound me how your lifeless corpse theory says "yet, they still refuse to believe!"

 

[Rufus]

You mean dead people as in corpses with no breath and on the slab, in the box, in the grave, in the sea, in the urn, etc.?

Or people walking around living and breathing and thinking and reasoning and making decisions and loving and hating and even thinking about and discussing the God and Creator who implanted knowledge about Himself in them and gave them some understanding of right and wrong and judgment? These dead people?

Now, you're catching on. The spiritually dead are dead precisely because they are SEPARATED from the Life of God. They are but spiritual zombies. Many of them even have a form of godliness -- but with no life-transforming power within!

 

[studier]

Yeah, I did. So?

Then we both know what it says, and that it upheld Jesus Kingdom teaching that anything beyond Yes and No is as Jesus says, from the evil one. So, you shouldn't be telling me or any Christian to make some oath to God.

 

[Rufus]

I know your tradition thinks a heart transplant is necessary to initially believe in Christ, and I know I along with others in and out of other traditions absolutely disagree with you.

It has ceased to astound me how your lifeless corpse theory says "yet, they still refuse to believe!"

And the reason they refuse to believe is because they CANNOT! The goats of this world will never believe. Only Christ's sheep will!

 

[studier]

Now, you're catching on. The spiritually dead are dead precisely because they are SEPARATED from the Life of God. They are but spiritual zombies. Many of them even have a form of godliness -- but with no life-transforming power within!

I caught on to and rejected the stupidity long ago.

 

[Rufus]

Then we both know what it says, and that it upheld Jesus Kingdom teaching that anything beyond Yes and No is as Jesus says, from the evil one. So, you shouldn't be telling me or any Christian to make some oath to God.

Then you had better never appear as a witness or defendant in a trial whereby you will be required to take an oath. And stay away from public office, too. Furthermore, taking a vow or an oath are not very different from one another since both involve making a PROMISE! Yet, we find instances in the NT when believers did take vows before God.

 

[Rufus]

I caught on to and rejected the stupidity long ago.

Of course, you do because you think you're the smartest person in the room. It's your egotistical, smug, prideful intellect that make the difference between you and unbelievers.

 

[Jackson129]

Care to explain in brief?

Had you ever heard of God before this? Had you ever wondered about His existence?

Had you ever heard of Jesus Christ or anything about Him?

Had you ever known any Christians or known of them?

Had you ever known anything about the Christian "religion" and what Christians seemed to believe?

I had a near death experience if that is the right term. God didnt let me die. With the life i lived till then i have no idea why. I had no part in being saved that day. It was only by his grace nothing else. Once you know it's real there's no need to wonder. I became immensely scared that if i were to die that down is the only place for me. Since you you know not the hour or the day I became terrified it could happen at any second again. I was scared of God and what would happen to me if I died. I've had plenty of close calls if you will but that one was differnt. That one changed me. So yes I had free will to choose to go to God but every single thing that lead up to that choice. Ever circumstance that even put that choice into my consciousness was by the grace of God nothing else
Yes I heard of Jesus everyone in the civilized world has at some point in thier life.

 

[studier]

And the reason they refuse to believe is because they CANNOT! The goats of this world will never believe. Only Christ's sheep will!

No one could believe in God if God had not implanted knowledge in Himself into men. And no one could believe Jesus is the Christ if God had not sent Him and provided His Message and teaching about Him. Yet God has done both of these things and has not left Himself without witness to draw living, breathing, thinking, reasoning men who can be persuaded of Truth no matter how bizarre it may sound to many and who have sufficient mental faculty of belief and will to accept or reject Him.

Wash, rinse, repeat 12k+ posts...

 

[BillyBob]

Though the trinity the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost are all one in the same head of almighty God. Take me for instance I never went to church never read the Bible then one day got the fear of God put into me. I didn't put it there i can assure you of that. So I repented of my sins to God got a Bible and started reading. Now I pray to Jesus. Do you think it actually matters who I prayed to first? I dont. When you ask why does the Father need to give anyone to the Son or draw them to the Son. He dosent need to do anything hes God. Maybe thats just the way he does it.

Keep posting! I enjoy hearing what you have to say even though we differ somewhat.

I think that most, if not all, people have a fear of God. But, I do not believe that all will reach the point of trusting in Him. It seems that we all initially believe that we must do something to earn His mercy in our own strength.
In my case, I sat in church for a long time before I turned to God in faith. I could not convince myself that I deserved His mercy in any way. Therefore, why should I put my trust in Him?
I eventually learned the truth by hearing his word. There is nobody beyond the mercy of God.

This realization came by hearing the teaching of his word. It was not something that came from me. It melted my heart and brought me to my knees. I just needed to hear and believe that I could do nothing in my own strength.

You see, I was right all along! I was not good enough, but God will have mercy and forgive those who belong to Him.

 

[lrs68]

IOW, you don't have the first clue as to who the "you" is/are in 2Pet 3:9 -- and yet you boldly and confidently and smugly proclaim that Peter was teaching that God is not willing that any [human being] should perish. Maybe you should put that interpretation on hold until you figure out someday the identity of the "you".

Peter is stating what God told Moses in the Book of Exodus so I know specifically what Peter is alluding to.

 

[studier]

Of course, you do because you think you're the smartest person in the room. It's your egotistical, smug, prideful intellect that make the difference between you and unbelievers.

Ad hom & hypocrisy. As I said, wash, rinse, repeat... Will you break the cycle and not get into lengthy diversionary narratives now?

 

[Rufus]

I had a near death experience if that is the right term. God didnt let me die. With the life i lived till then i have no idea why. I had no part in being saved that day. It was only by his grace nothing else. Once you know it's real there's no need to wonder. I became immensely scared that if i were to die that down is the only place for me. Since you you know not the hour or the day I became terrified it could happen at any second again. I was scared of God and what would happen to me if I died. I've had plenty of close calls if you will but that one was differnt. That one changed me. So yes I had free will to choose to go to God but every single thing that lead up to that choice. Ever circumstance that even put that choice into my consciousness was by the grace of God nothing else
Yes I heard of Jesus everyone in the civilized world has at some point in thier life.

Fascinating testimony! What I highlighted is called God's PROVIDENCE! Every singe thing you personally experienced was indeed God's precious grace effectually drawing you to His Son!

And thank you for sharing that remarkable testimony.

 

[Rufus]

Peter is stating what God told Moses in the Book of Exodus so I know specifically what Peter is alluding to.

So...Moses knows the identity of the "you" in 2Pet 3:9 but you don't?

And what specifically did God tell Moses in Exodus that is relevant to 2Pet 3:9?

 

[Rufus]

Ad hom & hypocrisy. As I said, wash, rinse, repeat... Will you break the cycle and not get into lengthy diversionary narratives now?

Well...you did brag once that smart people have it all over their lesser intellectual counterparts when it comes to spiritual truth, right -- even though scripture teaches the exact opposite!? I saw lots of ego stroking and back patting in that post.

 

[Magenta]

I had a near death experience if that is the right term. God didnt let me die. With the life i lived till then i have no idea why. I had no part in being saved that day. It was only by his grace nothing else. Once you know it's real there's no need to wonder. I became immensely scared that if i were to die that down is the only place for me. Since you you know not the hour or the day I became terrified it could happen at any second again. I was scared of God and what would happen to me if I died. I've had plenty of close calls if you will but that one was differnt. That one changed me. So yes I had free will to choose to go to God but every single thing that lead up to that choice. Ever circumstance that even put that choice into my consciousness was by the grace of God nothing else
Yes I heard of Jesus everyone in the civilized world has at some point in thier life.

Matthew 11 verse 27 ~ All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.

 

[Jackson129]

I am fairly new to this that incident was 7.5 years ago now. So maybe I dont understand everything people are saying back and forth here. I feel like one side is saying God's grace saves you and one side is saying your free will to have faith saves you. I am not choosing sides just evaluating the conversation with my own perspective based on what and how it happened to me. And I think yes you do have free will to awnser God's call and that saves you but God's grace dialed the number to begin with and without that call you would of had no faith.

 

[studier]

I had a near death experience if that is the right term. God didnt let me die. With the life i lived till then i have no idea why. I had no part in being saved that day. It was only by his grace nothing else. Once you know it's real there's no need to wonder. I became immensely scared that if i were to die that down is the only place for me. Since you you know not the hour or the day I became terrified it could happen at any second again. I was scared of God and what would happen to me if I died. I've had plenty of close calls if you will but that one was differnt. That one changed me. So yes I had free will to choose to go to God but every single thing that lead up to that choice. Ever circumstance that even put that choice into my consciousness was by the grace of God nothing else
Yes I heard of Jesus everyone in the civilized world has at some point in thier life.

Interesting and thanks!

The point is that you knew of God, and you knew of Jesus Christ. You say now that God didn't let you die. I assume you understood that at or near the time of the experience. You knew of a concept of going "down" and knew you deserved it. You were far from ignorant of God and had much in your mind that He placed in all people.

You also know you made the choice and by His Grace you were still here to make that choice. IOW He had kept you here, had provided you with information, but He had not made that decision to accept Him for you.

Many of us have had similar experiences. I can look back and see at least 2 or 3 occasions where seemingly miraculous things took place to allow me the time to choose Life. Even after those events it took years for me to choose and my realization at that point was that I had made every stupid decision that led to my being in the condition that accepting Him was the only thing that made sense anymore.

Thanks again.

 

[studier]

Well...you did brag once that smart people have it all over their lesser intellectual counterparts when it comes to spiritual truth, right -- even though scripture teaches the exact opposite!? I saw lots of ego stroking and back patting in that post.

Sure, that was when you said Moses was a Weimaraner, remember?