The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Have you built an ark? Made animal sacrifices? Gone to Nineveh preaching destruction?

There are three audiences in scripture that God recognizes: Jew, Gentile, the church of God. We are to rightly divide the word of truth within these three audiences.

Now the only distinction God makes is between the godly and the ungodly, children of God and children of the devil. There is neither Jew nor gentile in his eyes.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:26-29​

 

[John146]

Now the only distinction God makes is between the godly and the ungodly, children of God and children of the devil. There is neither Jew nor gentile in his eyes.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:26-29​

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

And this has what to do with how God views things?

 

[Hakawaka]

The Person who is truly Saved has experienced God's Blessings through having the indwelling of the Holy spirit and believe me --NO ONE who has experienced God's Blessings and the Holy Spirit's enlightenment will ever want to denounce Christ --their lives have just been made to good to even think about denouncing Christ ----that is a truly Saved forever person -----THE ONCE SAVED WILL ALWAYS WANT TO STAY SAVED ------

If this were true the bible would have no warnings about remaining steadfast in the faith and persevering. There would be no warning about falling away, being sure that no evil heart of unbelief and bitterness takes over and causes apostasy.
It would just be a guarantee one remains in Christ.

Even the famous 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 which is quoted as the gospel (and for some reason some guys here think its THE ENTIRERY of the gospel) has a condition in it. IF you remain in it, otherwise you would have believed in VAIN.

There is also the parable of many soils where some believe for a WHILE and then fall away, so they did believe, then stopped believing, because of the stress of this world.

 

[HeIsHere]

If this were true the bible would have no warnings about remaining steadfast in the faith and persevering. There would be no warning about falling away, being sure that no evil heart of unbelief and bitterness takes over and causes apostasy.
It would just be a guarantee one remains in Christ.

Even the famous 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 which is quoted as the gospel (and for some reason some guys here think its THE ENTIRERY of the gospel) has a condition in it. IF you remain in it, otherwise you would have believed in VAIN.

There is also the parable of many soils where some believe for a WHILE and then fall away, so they did believe, then stopped believing, because of the stress of this world.

The condition is not connected to spiritual salvation.
There is always a semantic range to words and the context decides the meaning.

I have yet to find a verse where God "unjustified" a person.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The condition is not connected to spiritual salvation.
There is always a semantic range to words and the context decides the meaning.
I have yet to find a verse where God "unjustified" a person.

How about blotting one's name out of the book of life? The logical conclusion from this verse it that those who don't conquer the world and sin will be blotted out.

The one conquering will be clothed in white garments, and by no means will I blot his name out of the scroll of life. And I will avow his name before my father and before his messengers. Revelation 3:5​

​

 

[Hakawaka]

The condition is not connected to spiritual salvation.
There is always a semantic range to words and the context decides the meaning.

I have yet to find a verse where God "unjustified" a person.

There are plenty. 2 Peter 2 for one, a person who escapes the pollution of the world and goes back to his vomit like a dog is WORSE OFF, and it would be better if they had never even KNOWN the truth.

hebrews as a few warnings about it too.

 

[Cameron143]

There are plenty. 2 Peter 2 for one, a person who escapes the pollution of the world and goes back to his vomit like a dog is WORSE OFF, and it would be better if they had never even KNOWN the truth.

hebrews as a few warnings about it too.

These aren't conditional statements. Rather, they are simply statements of fact. An individual who through an act of the will stops taking part in the pollution of the world aren't subject to the corruption that brings. But that doesn't change their nature. They are simply a cleaner version of what they were before. The proof that their nature hasn't changed is that they return to their former ways. Conversely, those who have become new creations do possess a new and divine nature and will, because of the work of the Spirit walk more and more in the new nature.

Many conflate the actions of individuals with the actions of God. Where God is active, there may be relapses, God has promised His children success...Philippians 1:6.

Also, if the maintenance of salvation is the responsibility of the individual, then salvation is ultimately of works.

 

[lrs68]

We have numerous examples where God instructed the at the moment in time High Priest to go Anoint someone to be king or something else like Samson and others.

Anointing was the basic act of having the equivalent of 5 QUARTS OF ANOINTING OIL dumped all over the body to cover the body as reference to now being filled with the Holy Spirit of God.

So these people are saved should they up and fall over dead. But instead, we read where several choose to ignore God. To reject the instructions from God. To live like the best possible sinner they can absolutely be.

Samson is a good example of saved, rejecting God, and later calling out to God.
We have way too many examples of being saved, rejecting God, coming back to God to make such claims.

Let's not forget Solomon and so many others. Solomon was worshipping other gods and making idols. But to be king, it required God to tell the High Priest to Anoint him. He was saved and backslid and came back to God in the latter years of his life.

 

[studentoftheword]

There is also the parable of many soils where some believe for a WHILE and then fall away, so they did believe, then stopped believing, because of the stress of this world.

because their faith was intellectual and not God's Faith -----that is what the parable of the soils is about ---

There is only one producing Faith --God's saving Faith --the other 2 are non producing ----intellectual Human Faith is non producing cause it relies on your 5 senses -and Satan has full reign under this Faith ---and Dominic Faith is a non producing Faith ---they believe Jesus is God ---but their belief is a non producing Faith -----

Parable pf the sower here [[[[Notice -----verse * ---Good Soil ------Right Faith ---God;s saving Faith Produces much


A farmer went out to sow his seed.

4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.

5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow.

6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants.

8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.

9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

 

[Believer08]

OSAS prides itself off of having security, when it does the exact opposite. It simply does not have any security for the individuals who believe it.

Person A to OSAS’er: Are you saved at this very moment?

OSAS’er: Absolutely. In fact, I’m not just saved at this very moment, I’m once saved always saved.

Person A: But if you depart from your belief, then does that mean you were never saved?

OSAS’er: Some would say that about me, sure.

Person A: So, the whole entire time you believed you were saved you were lost?

OSAS’er: Yes. I guess I was…

Person A: So then it’s possible for someone to believe they are saved and not be?

OSAS’er: Sure..it happens all the time.

Person A: Then when would you know for sure whether you or anyone were actually saved then?

 

[Magenta]

So, according to their view, it is possible for someone to believe they are saved but not be!!!

Unless I knew with absolute certainty that they didn’t become a Christian
according to God’s word, I’d never say someone was never saved to begin with.

Yeah, it is most often the person departing the faith who lets everyone else know they were not saved to
begin with. I was thinking of Jimbone's testimony also, and am glad he has given it for your consideration...

OSAS prides itself off of having security, when it does the exact opposite.
It simply does not have any security for the individuals who believe that.

I do not really understand what you are trying to prove with these types of statements. Scripture says we can know
we have eternal life, and that is by knowing Jesus... through Him, we are saved by grace through faith in His shed
righteous blood... He gave His life as a payment for sin... If someone is saved, they can know it. That is according to
Scripture, which is in opposition to your statements.

1 John 5:11-13 + John 6:47 ~ This is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[Magenta]

John 17:2-3~ You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.

 

[HeIsHere]

There are plenty. 2 Peter 2 for one, a person who escapes the pollution of the world and goes back to his vomit like a dog is WORSE OFF, and it would be better if they had never even KNOWN the truth.

hebrews as a few warnings about it too.

Do these verses state that God un-justifies a person?
You can read that into the text but it does not make that assertion.

 

[Blade]

Can I ask.. is there some thread or some person you.are talking about? All you did was share what you personally believe about once saved always saved vs you can lose your salvation and? Yeah nothing was solved or answered, finished, fixed.

Here's the kicker.. the rub.. where is Gods word in this? Well for me He always backs up what He said by His word. I once asked Him why someone is not being healed.. haha no I. didn't expect anything He said "remember when Daniel prayed?" Just those four words.. so much was said yet only four word.. that alone was wow. So I said.. ok if this is you where is that written "Daniel 10 9-12". Man I could care less if NO ONE ever believes me but.. this in 63 years only happened twice.. well at that time I had never read the OT.. no clue what was in Daniel. Yeah heard the story but.. haha if someone had asked.. what angel was it? HUH? Haha. Yeah..

I have to.. the other time I was in this Christian pup and just listing "Behold I stand at the door and knock". I thought . wow wonder where that is "Rev 3:20" came right back.. I thought I'm just guessing. Again.. a book letter REV I had never read. This one got me I went around telling the people around me but.. haha no one was as happy as I was.

Anyway.. I don't havre these thoughts. What hurts is how many just blindly talk abut this not thinking about those weak in the faith.. IF we cause one of them to stumble.. we will answer to HIM

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

What hurts is how many just blindly talk abut this not thinking about those weak in the faith.. IF we cause one of them to stumble.. we will answer to HIM

Correct, precious friend! UNsound doctrine will NEVER help Encourage And Edify all the
new-born babes In Christ, but Sound Doctrine Such as The Following Will Do So, eh?:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Amen.

 

[Gideon300]

Born from above means to be conceived from above; it doesn't mean having been birthed, which doesn't happen until the resurrection when we are given incorruptible bodies. Conception cannot be undone, but it can die before birth, ie stillbirth

Salvation is of the body, soul and spirit, ie the whole man

And may the GOD of peace himself fully sanctify you, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23​

Sure. The spirit is saved instantly and that cannot be reversed. The body is "saved" instantly also and cannot be reversed. The soul is transformed progressively -

The mind is renewed.
Rebellious self will is inclined to the will of God
Emotions become our servant, not our master
Revelation from the Holy Spirit separates soul and spirit.

How long this process takes depends on our willingness to change. Those who imagine that they are already good enough stay where they are. The process takes a lifetime.

 

[Hakawaka]

Do these verses state that God un-justifies a person?
You can read that into the text but it does not make that assertion.

Uhh yes? If someone has been CLEANSED, then gets DIRTY again. If someone has been SANCTIFIED by the blood of Christ, and then becomes UNSANCTIFIED, what is that called?

 

[HeIsHere]

Uhh yes? If someone has been CLEANSED, then gets DIRTY again. If someone has been SANCTIFIED by the blood of Christ, and then becomes UNSANCTIFIED, what is that called?

Two questions:

1) Do you believe all sin, past, present and future was paid for at the cross.
2) How much sin caused un-sanctification?
We must determine intensity and duration do you have something in scripture that sets that out for us?

 

[HeIsHere]

Uhh yes? If someone has been CLEANSED, then gets DIRTY again. If someone has been SANCTIFIED by the blood of Christ, and then becomes UNSANCTIFIED, what is that called?

Scripture is very difficult to understand unless one has certain core doctrines correct.

Salvation, discipleship and eschatology being at the top of the list.
I hope we can look at salvation deeper this time.