Understanding God’s election
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You misunderstand Paul and you have no idea if revelation came directly from God or not in the circumstance you cited.
You have individuals coming to faith apart from the word of God. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. A contemplation of nature, or an innate sense of eternity is insufficient to faith.
You have individuals coming to faith apart from the word of God. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. A contemplation of nature, or an innate sense of eternity is insufficient to faith.
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He can't be saying as you suggest. Those in Christ are secure in Him. They cannot be removed from the hands of the Father or the Son.
What you suggest is also contrary to Philippians 2:13 which says God is at work in the believer to will and do of His good pleasure. Are you suggesting God's good pleasure is to work in them so that they will be removed and burned?
You may want to rethink your position.
What you suggest is also contrary to Philippians 2:13 which says God is at work in the believer to will and do of His good pleasure. Are you suggesting God's good pleasure is to work in them so that they will be removed and burned?
You may want to rethink your position.
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If that was intended for me, yes, I do definitely believe in Sola Scriptura, but you have to include ALL of the pertinent verses, not just
the one that supports your position. I posted this to you before but to no effect. Do you see the "and I in him"? Both conditions
have to be true for someone to bring forth fruit - only those chosen by God, is God "in" them, and thus, only they can satisfy both requirements to bring forth fruit.
[Jhn 15:5 KJV] 5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Only those ordained by God, not everyone who claims to be a Christian, they alone bring forth fruit,
[Jhn 15:8 KJV] 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[Jhn 15:16 KJV] 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
the one that supports your position. I posted this to you before but to no effect. Do you see the "and I in him"? Both conditions
have to be true for someone to bring forth fruit - only those chosen by God, is God "in" them, and thus, only they can satisfy both requirements to bring forth fruit.
[Jhn 15:5 KJV] 5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Only those ordained by God, not everyone who claims to be a Christian, they alone bring forth fruit,
[Jhn 15:8 KJV] 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[Jhn 15:16 KJV] 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
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Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away
You must bear fruit Cameron.
If your in Jesus, in the vine, then you must bear fruit.
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife,
jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these.
I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
You must bear fruit Cameron.
If your in Jesus, in the vine, then you must bear fruit.
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife,
jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these.
I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The problem you have is that you are in denial of what Jesus is telling you.
If you live by the Spirit and not by the flesh then you remain saved.
If on the other hand, you have become a Christian and start beating your slaves. Then you forfeit
your salvation.
No one is saying that the source of the fruit is not the Holy Spirit.
But we have been told, over and over again, to walk in the Spirit.
You seem to be interpretating the scripture according to some church tradition.
If you live by the Spirit and not by the flesh then you remain saved.
If on the other hand, you have become a Christian and start beating your slaves. Then you forfeit
your salvation.
No one is saying that the source of the fruit is not the Holy Spirit.
But we have been told, over and over again, to walk in the Spirit.
You seem to be interpretating the scripture according to some church tradition.
No church tradition for me - but it sounds so for you. No one can walk in the Spirit unless they have been given the Spirit. When
we became saved we were given the Spirit. It is not possible that we gave Him to ourselves. To walk in the Spirit is to cease from our efforts for salvation and trust solely in God's mercy and grace through Christ as Savior. No one, of themselves, unless saved and having been given the Spirit, can do so.
we became saved we were given the Spirit. It is not possible that we gave Him to ourselves. To walk in the Spirit is to cease from our efforts for salvation and trust solely in God's mercy and grace through Christ as Savior. No one, of themselves, unless saved and having been given the Spirit, can do so.
The vine is responsible for fruit. The branches merely bear it. If you are truly in Christ, you will bear fruit.
What is actually being taught in the passage is that it is possible to be connected in some way to Jesus without Him abiding in you. Notice that we must abide in Him, but also Him in us, in order to bear fruit.
There are plenty who have attached themselves to the church and those things associated with it. They know the pastor, the songbook, the liturgy, all without truly knowing God or Jesus. They have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. Most will eventually fall away, and this is why you believe believers can fall away, all the while you produce many of them by telling them all they need to do is say a sinner's prayer and receive Jesus into their hearts.
True salvation is a conversion; a transformation. A new creation is produced.
What is actually being taught in the passage is that it is possible to be connected in some way to Jesus without Him abiding in you. Notice that we must abide in Him, but also Him in us, in order to bear fruit.
There are plenty who have attached themselves to the church and those things associated with it. They know the pastor, the songbook, the liturgy, all without truly knowing God or Jesus. They have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. Most will eventually fall away, and this is why you believe believers can fall away, all the while you produce many of them by telling them all they need to do is say a sinner's prayer and receive Jesus into their hearts.
True salvation is a conversion; a transformation. A new creation is produced.
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