Is Eschatology or prophecies a “salvation issue”?
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In my opinion it's okay to have a wrong understanding about prophecy and end times; but a person shouldn't get too set in their ways about a prophetic interpretation. That's what happened to the religious leaders in Jesus' day. Just trust what the Lord reveals to you today, but be willing to listen and change your mind tomorrow if He gives you a clearer understanding. If you die with a wrong interpretation of Revelation or Daniel I really don't think the Lord will hold it against you if you're heart's right.
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Nope it’s not gonna cause anyone to be lost if they don’t understand every detail in the Bible .
It’s a good faith promise from Jesus
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
It’s a good faith promise from Jesus
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
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That depends upon who that "someone" is.
For example, there are many prophecies in the Old Testament which point to Jesus being the Christ. Well, there are multitudes of both Israelites/Jews and Gentiles alike who fail to recognize him as being such, so that would definitely be a salvation issue for them.
At the same time, if that "someone" is a born-again Christian, and if that "someone" simply does not understand the timing of a prophesied end-times event, like the rapture/second coming, then that would not necessarily be a salvation issue. It could be, under certain circumstances, but not necessarily so.
For example, there are many prophecies in the Old Testament which point to Jesus being the Christ. Well, there are multitudes of both Israelites/Jews and Gentiles alike who fail to recognize him as being such, so that would definitely be a salvation issue for them.
At the same time, if that "someone" is a born-again Christian, and if that "someone" simply does not understand the timing of a prophesied end-times event, like the rapture/second coming, then that would not necessarily be a salvation issue. It could be, under certain circumstances, but not necessarily so.
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It depends on the person's motive, to whether or not one is saved by Father or not in risen Son for them to be in
God I see, judges each persons motive in why?
As he said to some, go away, you who work iniquity. As they com[plain BUT I did that and this? Yet, it is God who sees truth behind the scenes of us all, that I see to stand in belief and not be after any self gain, standing in trust to God to do as God says God will do for each as in Romans 14:1-4. Just have a modicum of doubt and kick self out, be your own God, many are and unfortunately have chosen so.
Romans 14:4
Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.]
seeing and hearing that above, puts me at rest in continued trust to God, trusting all things work out for the good of God, being the only one good to this very present second, to me anyways
God I see, judges each persons motive in why?
As he said to some, go away, you who work iniquity. As they com[plain BUT I did that and this? Yet, it is God who sees truth behind the scenes of us all, that I see to stand in belief and not be after any self gain, standing in trust to God to do as God says God will do for each as in Romans 14:1-4. Just have a modicum of doubt and kick self out, be your own God, many are and unfortunately have chosen so.
Romans 14:4
Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.]
seeing and hearing that above, puts me at rest in continued trust to God, trusting all things work out for the good of God, being the only one good to this very present second, to me anyways
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I prefer cannot " enter the Kingdom of God " for there are many here who say they are in the Kingdom already. . As for the greek word " anothen " which means again or anew has another meaning which is " from above ". Born from above is speaking of the resurrection. Even tho Nicodemus understood there had to be another body he sure didnt understand what Jesus was teaching.
Today we use born again term to denote being saved with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If that was the term Jesus used, he never mentioned it again, nor his disciples or their followers, nor the church for 1900 years.
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
I prefer cannot " enter the Kingdom of God " for there are many here who say they are in the Kingdom already. . As for the greek word " anothen " which means again or anew has another meaning which is " from above ". Born from above is speaking of the resurrection. Even tho Nicodemus understood there had to be another body he sure didnt understand what Jesus was teaching.
Today we use born again term to denote being saved with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If that was the term Jesus used, he never mentioned it again, nor his disciples or their followers, nor the church for 1900 years.
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
Yes. Understanding prophecy relates to two kinds of salvation: from the wickedness of the world and from a reprobate mind. It won't prevent you from going to heaven, salvation for eternal life.
Furthermore, if one rejects the prophetic gift in the church today then God will not elevate them to leadership (anyone in leadership currently rejecting the prophetic gift has put themselves in that position, not God). Hearing God directly is required for the love of God to live through us. This is how Jesus loved us: He did what He saw His Father doing. The command of Jesus is this that we "love one another as He has loved us". This was before His death. While alive, He gave up the right to live His own life and, instead, took all direction from the Father. By this, men could see the Son and receive the Father (if you've seen Me you've seen the Father). As sons of God, this, too, is our acceptable form of worship: permitting our Father to live through us.
Furthermore, if one rejects the prophetic gift in the church today then God will not elevate them to leadership (anyone in leadership currently rejecting the prophetic gift has put themselves in that position, not God). Hearing God directly is required for the love of God to live through us. This is how Jesus loved us: He did what He saw His Father doing. The command of Jesus is this that we "love one another as He has loved us". This was before His death. While alive, He gave up the right to live His own life and, instead, took all direction from the Father. By this, men could see the Son and receive the Father (if you've seen Me you've seen the Father). As sons of God, this, too, is our acceptable form of worship: permitting our Father to live through us.
Yes, as I am growing daily to see truth over error as well, I have seen one problem leave one at a time, by Father of Jesus doing that in God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit. the same Spirit that led Son Jesus first, thanks to Father above it all and you seeing this truth too. we are learning, at least me new daily in humility I see to stand in not pride over as if I got it as have in past, God does continue in God's Love for me and everyone else also. I, now see to rest in trusting all problems to God, seeing things leave (never by my doing) eventually leave my old Mind set, in the renewing of my old mindset as in Romans 12:2 To see new from Daddy's view through risen Son that had to first die to take away all sin first for the new to ever begin as has been happening to this present day. The death had to be first, were all sin got took away in his Father's sight for us to now enter in his courts with thanksgiving and praise all sin now taken away as far as the east is from the west
That is what is done as in John 19:30 Time to go to Father personally and ask, then receive and see new in love to all. Over the love the few, only the flesh knows how to do the first birth
That is what is done as in John 19:30 Time to go to Father personally and ask, then receive and see new in love to all. Over the love the few, only the flesh knows how to do the first birth
I am trying to understand this, and I am assuming that there are some typos. Did you mean to say:
"Eschatology is really not THAT challenging IF one just trusts what Christ Jesus clearly states over and over again."
If so, then I agree. One part of the problem is when people go "quote mining" or when they start pulling arbitrary verses out of their intended contexts in order to make them say whatever they want them to say. Another part of the problem is that a lot of people truly don't know what Jesus "clearly states" over and over again. In other words, Jesus regularly cited Old Testament portions of scriptures when speaking. If people are not aware of what he was quoting, then they are more than likely going to come away with a wrong interpretation of what he "clearly states." I could very easily give an example of what I mean by that.
"Eschatology is really not THAT challenging IF one just trusts what Christ Jesus clearly states over and over again."
If so, then I agree. One part of the problem is when people go "quote mining" or when they start pulling arbitrary verses out of their intended contexts in order to make them say whatever they want them to say. Another part of the problem is that a lot of people truly don't know what Jesus "clearly states" over and over again. In other words, Jesus regularly cited Old Testament portions of scriptures when speaking. If people are not aware of what he was quoting, then they are more than likely going to come away with a wrong interpretation of what he "clearly states." I could very easily give an example of what I mean by that.
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I am trying to understand this, and I am assuming that there are some typos. Did you mean to say:
"Eschatology is really not THAT challenging IF one just trusts what Christ Jesus clearly states over and over again."
If so, then I agree. One part of the problem is when people go "quote mining" or when they start pulling arbitrary verses out of their intended contexts in order to make them say whatever they want them to say. Another part of the problem is that a lot of people truly don't know what Jesus "clearly states" over and over again. In other words, Jesus regularly cited Old Testament portions of scriptures when speaking. If people are not aware of what he was quoting, then they are more than likely going to come away with a wrong interpretation of what he "clearly states." I could very easily give an example of what I mean by that.
"Eschatology is really not THAT challenging IF one just trusts what Christ Jesus clearly states over and over again."
If so, then I agree. One part of the problem is when people go "quote mining" or when they start pulling arbitrary verses out of their intended contexts in order to make them say whatever they want them to say. Another part of the problem is that a lot of people truly don't know what Jesus "clearly states" over and over again. In other words, Jesus regularly cited Old Testament portions of scriptures when speaking. If people are not aware of what he was quoting, then they are more than likely going to come away with a wrong interpretation of what he "clearly states." I could very easily give an example of what I mean by that.
Yes this is correct.
Eschatology is really not THAT challenging IF one just trusts what Christ Jesus clearly states over and over again.
I would agree Christ Jesus is citing the OT, and that is the clarity of His words, understanding the connection.
If you have an example that would be good to share.
Thanks
It depends.
Prophetically I'm assuming you mean things yet to come.
If the interpretation is twisted to the point of denying Hell, distorting Heaven as cult religions do, or downplaying judgment and leading into such error that if we were to experience tribulation then some out of deception could take the mark. Despite which view we hold within a pre, mid, or post trib view among others, we should at least acknowledge if we are wrong, we should be aware of what to expect.
Now if you mean all prophecies then you run into those like the Jews who do not follow the prophetic timeline and recognize Jesus as their Messiah. So in that case then they are in danger of Hell.
Then, of course, the unbeliever who rejects all prophecy and laughs at end-time theology, well of course they are in danger as well.
So it depends on the debated topic especially if they involve matters that lead to salvation.
Prophetically I'm assuming you mean things yet to come.
If the interpretation is twisted to the point of denying Hell, distorting Heaven as cult religions do, or downplaying judgment and leading into such error that if we were to experience tribulation then some out of deception could take the mark. Despite which view we hold within a pre, mid, or post trib view among others, we should at least acknowledge if we are wrong, we should be aware of what to expect.
Now if you mean all prophecies then you run into those like the Jews who do not follow the prophetic timeline and recognize Jesus as their Messiah. So in that case then they are in danger of Hell.
Then, of course, the unbeliever who rejects all prophecy and laughs at end-time theology, well of course they are in danger as well.
So it depends on the debated topic especially if they involve matters that lead to salvation.
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Each one of us lacks complete understanding in several areas.
How it works for everyone.
1. We begin reading the Bible.
2. We get some understanding from what we read.
3. Time passes by and we live life living for God.
4. Then we will read the SAME VERSES again and this time it will have a deeper meaning to it.
5. We might end up reading the Bible all the way through for the year and repeat the next year for many years of our life while living for God. Each time we read there's a deeper meaning to the verse until we kind of know what it is supposed to mean.
The key is read the entire Bible over and over as you live your life for God and the more times you read the Bible the Holy Spirit will give you a deeper understanding.
How it works for everyone.
1. We begin reading the Bible.
2. We get some understanding from what we read.
3. Time passes by and we live life living for God.
4. Then we will read the SAME VERSES again and this time it will have a deeper meaning to it.
5. We might end up reading the Bible all the way through for the year and repeat the next year for many years of our life while living for God. Each time we read there's a deeper meaning to the verse until we kind of know what it is supposed to mean.
The key is read the entire Bible over and over as you live your life for God and the more times you read the Bible the Holy Spirit will give you a deeper understanding.
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If you have an example that would be good to share.
Thanks
Thanks
Dan 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
There is a lot in those three verses which pertains to the end times, and there is also a chronological order of events.
First, Michael, the great prince or the archangel (Jude 1:9), will stand up (vs. 1) against Satan and his angels (Rev. 12:7-9).
Second, as a result of Michael and his angels defeating Satan and his angels, Satan will be cast down to this earth, and he will come down having great wrath because he will know that his time is short (Rev. 12:12). This coincides with the "time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" (vs. 1), or it coincides with the coming great tribulation.
Third, two distinct resurrections will follow. One "to everlasting life" (vs. 2) or "the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:5-6) which occurs at Christ's second coming, and, afterwards, the other "to shame and everlasting contempt" (vs. 2) or that which will transpire when the wicked dead are raised at the end of Christ's Millennial Reign (Rev. 20:11-15).
Last, or after all of these events have already taken place, "they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever" (vs. 3), and Jesus alluded to this LAST CHRONOLOGICAL END TIME EVENT IN THIS SEQUENCE OF EVENTS in his parable of the wheat and tares.
Mat 13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Notice the "then" (vs. 43). Again, there is a chronological order of events which Jesus described in that parable, and it perfectly matches the chronological order of events in Daniel chapter 12. Although this "then" transpires "in the end of this world" (vs. 40), multitudes of professing Christians believe otherwise. Instead, they believe that the tares will be burned immediately when Christ returns, and not after he has "gathered out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity" (vs. 41) at the end of his Millennial Reign. In other words, they fail to see the distinction that Christ made between "his kingdom" (vs. 41) and "the kingdom of their Father" (vs. 43). Christ's kingdom comes first, and it will arrive at his second coming. One thousand years later, "in the end of this world" (vs. 40), or right before the new heaven and new earth arrive (Rev. 21:1) , the tares will be burned as the wicked are cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:15), and "THEN shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (vs. 43) as Christ delivers up the kingdom to God (1 Cor. 15:24).
Anyhow, I had this discussion with another forum member here a while back, and I explained this much better there than I am explaining it here. Here is the link to that if you want to read it.
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...r-following-verses.217200/page-5#post-5408894
The point that I am trying to make is that the Old Testament lays out for us a chronological order of end time events, and if people are not aware of that, or if people just willfully ignore that, then they can make the Bible say whatever they want it to say.
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@HeIsHere
I failed to mention something in my last response, and it has some bearing on the OP's question.
The first resurrection of Revelation chapter 20, is just that:
The first resurrection of the saints of God. In other words, there was no resurrection during some "secret rapture" prior to the first resurrection.
How does this possibly pertain to the OP's question?
Well, if "someone," and a lot of these "someones" exist, believes that they are going to be "caught up" to heaven prior to the great tribulation, and then they find themselves here during it, there is a possibility that they might cave or fall away from the faith in order to preserve their own life for a season.
Anyhow, I do not know what your beliefs are in relation to "the rapture," but there is nothing in the Bible that says it is pre-tribulation. And by nothing, I mean nothing in either the Old Testament or the New Testament. Sure, I know the verses which people twist to try to support that doctrine, but none of them hold up under scrutiny. I also know the absolute futility of engaging people in that particular conversation, and that is why I initially shrank back (but for a moment) from mentioning this in my previous response.
I failed to mention something in my last response, and it has some bearing on the OP's question.
The first resurrection of Revelation chapter 20, is just that:
The first resurrection of the saints of God. In other words, there was no resurrection during some "secret rapture" prior to the first resurrection.
How does this possibly pertain to the OP's question?
Well, if "someone," and a lot of these "someones" exist, believes that they are going to be "caught up" to heaven prior to the great tribulation, and then they find themselves here during it, there is a possibility that they might cave or fall away from the faith in order to preserve their own life for a season.
Anyhow, I do not know what your beliefs are in relation to "the rapture," but there is nothing in the Bible that says it is pre-tribulation. And by nothing, I mean nothing in either the Old Testament or the New Testament. Sure, I know the verses which people twist to try to support that doctrine, but none of them hold up under scrutiny. I also know the absolute futility of engaging people in that particular conversation, and that is why I initially shrank back (but for a moment) from mentioning this in my previous response.
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