Understanding God’s election
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Where does it say it merely refers to believers? Does the unbeliever possess anything other than carnality?
If you labored as hard to understand what it does say and not what it doesn't say, you just might find truth.
Certainly not a full list but as you can see, people are commanded to believe and be saved. How cruel would God have to be to tell someone to believe when they aren't capable of doing so??
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’
But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life...
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.
Clearly it is possible for a sinner to believe and be saved.
The better question would have been "where does it state any unbeliever in the flesh can exercise genuine faith"? I'll start with this one:
Rom 8:8
8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
NIV
Since no unregenerate sinner possesses the Holy Spirit, then this can only mean that all unregenerate believers are perpetually controlled by their flesh (sin nature). Yet, according to you freewillers, the "freewill" of those sinners who are in bondage to their flesh nonetheless can obey the demands of the Gospel by repenting of their sins and trusting in Christ. So...why can't God be pleased with their godly choice?
And how do you reconcile the above text with Lk 15:7 in which there is much joy in heaven over one repentant sinner? If God's holy habitat is pleased, why isn't He?
I can't wrap my mind around it. Why would I want to go to heaven knowing innocent people are in hell? I mean, if God needs to send people to hell for His glory, how many people does he need to send? 10, 100, 1000, 100 000?? Why not just one? Would one poor innocent soul in hell be enough? It's ridiculous.
So, since the natural man would still be hostile in his mind towards God except that God should do something in the mind of the natural man, isn't his change of mind from hostility to acceptance a work of God that leads to belief?
Traditional correct Soteriology applies a consistent hermeneutic
Your form of "exegesis" would lead to the wrong conclusion that we are saved by works.
Romans 8:13 states that "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live"
Therefor if verse 7 is applying to the unsaved, then verse 13 shows that salvation comes by mortifying the deeds of the flesh.
It is quite obvious what Paul is teaching and to whom and why.
"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh." v12
Seriously I know you are far to entrenched but God's word needs to be protected, seriously Calvinism makes the Gospel message of no effect ultimately.
I was unaware we were speaking about romans I am simply answering questions to see where he is going with it, I would prefer that we could come to an understanding
What verse did you share that contradicts Romans 8. The verses you shared only proves that God commands men to believe. It never says the natural man can. The scriptures I shared from Romans 8 unequivocally state he cannot.
For many, this would make God unjust and unloving. I appreciate that position but cannot find in scripture where the doctrine can be drawn. Perhaps you can show me in scripture where God is obligated to save anyone?
You will be tempted to base this on the love of God. This will make for interesting discussion, but if you go in this direction, please begin with scripture that require God to save on the basis of love.
Well you are a free agent, but growth in Christ Jesus comes from standing with Him and what He declares is true.
Verses out of context can be made to mean anything.
Ephesians 6:13-17: “Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.”
No they didn't Tulip is a constuct of the catholic church which by the way is not even in accord to what Christ teaches
Paul is simply sharing truth as directed by the Holy Spirit. And his argument from Romans 8 is in anticipation of an objection that Jews would naturally have to salvation in Messiah by faith. The question he anticipates is that if salvation is through faith, why did God give the law? In other words, if salvation is through faith and not the law, why give the law?
In making his argument, he takes the time to explain the nature of the natural man and his relationship to the law, and why it cannot possibly lead to reconciliation with God.
Perhaps you will give us a broad outline of the epistle of Romans if you have one.
I am not here to argue we can just leave it at this because going back and forth with you serves no purpose.