Why do some people believe and some do not?
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Romans 9 is not talking about the setting up and tearing down of earthly kingdoms. it's talking about salvation, how it must be, how it is, how it works and how to live in it. just like Romans 1-8 and Romans 10-16 are.
Romans 9 is not out by itself in left field completely unrelated to the rest of the epistle. it is exactly what naturally follows from Romans 6-8, which is exactly the omniscient conclusion of 1-5, and Romans 9 is exactly what sets the stage for Roman's 10-16.
yes it is talking about nations, but nations do not exist except for the people who make them up.
your argument has been that because 1 Timothy 2:3-4 tells us God desires all to be saved, that He must therefore enable us to do the first two things - to reach out to Him while we are dead ((Eph. 2)), and to love Him while we hate Him and are enemies of Him ((Rom. 1-2))
why did you change your mind?
now you are saying the opposite.
you don't like the idea of Him enabling us, if He actively does it in order to save us, but you like it, if He actively created us with this ability, such that He does not need to actively do anything to save us?
No one knows where freedom starts and ends in an individual because no two people are alike.
Narcissists are not very free, has been my experience.
Having stated that, I see nothing in scripture that states all mankind is born incapacitated from positively responding to the powerful message of the Good News unless God regenerates first.
Not in scripture.
Free will deniers are just trying to close the door on individual persuasion/belief ability based on the power and truth of the Gospel message because they know the rest of the so-called paradigm falls apart on this one point.
sorry, who?
did you read Augustine yet? it's really interesting. he goes on for pages and pages vehemently arguing free will exists, from scripture.
Augustine - On Grace and Free Will
i would like to discuss it. it's useful to actually know the origins of Calvin's thinking on these subjects, rather than just take what someone who hates him has to say.
i've never read Calvin at all either. i suppose i should do that next.
Yet you insist God must treat all people alike and claim He is unfair if He does not.
Meanwhile Scripture is full of evidence of God not revealing Himself in the exact same way to different people.
God is a personal God but you seem to dislike this concept and reality.
Apparently you have a problem with reconciling what Jesus said in MT 7:7 with your lack of love since you did not do so, but why do you think I seem to be unloving, since I merely reflected the implications of your disagreement with that verse?
Did God reveal Himself to you in a burning bush?
That is quite different than saying God makes it rain on both the righteous and unrighteous.
Do not be deceived.
I share what reading GW has taught me. What did I say that disagreed with Scripture?
You seem confused it was not Augustine's belief on free will that was under discussion but his views on fallen human nature.
You are so deceived it is ridiculous that you put yourself forward as a purveyor of truth. Augustine promoted free will
the same as Arminius promoted man's inability, which you wish to ascribe solely to Calvin. Your hatred blinds you.
He's revealed Himself in other ways we don't read happened to Moses. God is not a respecter of persons.
Do the Calvinites understand that all this Chapter (and all those preceding as well) DESTROYS their pretentions like so many false gods of Egypt?
And likewise do they realize that this is yet another PROOF NARRATIVE that also connects directly to the CHOICE NARRATIVE embedded
within the tribulation scenario of Revelation? And the Sodom narrative as well?
And that it is ALL ABOUT God's merciful offer of salvation to ALL MEN everywhere at all times?
Even the horrid inhabitants of Canaanite Jericho, the most wicked of all cities?
No. No they do not have the foggiest notion of what is being INTENTIONALLY communicated here.
But it DOES wreck the Calvinite pity party that's for sure. Whether they like it or not. Whether they realize it or not.
[Jos 6:1 NKJV]
Now Jericho was securely shut up because of the children of Israel; none went out, and none came in.
[Jos 6:17 NKJV]
"Now the city shall be doomed by the LORD to destruction, it and all who [are] in it. Only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all who [are] with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent.
[Deu 17:6 NKJV]
"Whoever is deserving of death shall be put to death on the testimony of two or three witnesses; he shall not be put to death on the testimony of one witness.
And likewise do they realize that this is yet another PROOF NARRATIVE that also connects directly to the CHOICE NARRATIVE embedded
within the tribulation scenario of Revelation? And the Sodom narrative as well?
And that it is ALL ABOUT God's merciful offer of salvation to ALL MEN everywhere at all times?
Even the horrid inhabitants of Canaanite Jericho, the most wicked of all cities?
No. No they do not have the foggiest notion of what is being INTENTIONALLY communicated here.
But it DOES wreck the Calvinite pity party that's for sure. Whether they like it or not. Whether they realize it or not.
[Jos 6:1 NKJV]
Now Jericho was securely shut up because of the children of Israel; none went out, and none came in.
[Jos 6:17 NKJV]
"Now the city shall be doomed by the LORD to destruction, it and all who [are] in it. Only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all who [are] with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent.
[Deu 17:6 NKJV]
"Whoever is deserving of death shall be put to death on the testimony of two or three witnesses; he shall not be put to death on the testimony of one witness.
Nice fumble recovery.
Is this another Calvinite bait and switch job that got caught red-handed?
Another Calvinite scenery change perhaps?
Calvinites have a lot of sneaky tricks tucked away in their Reformed baggage. Nasty.